FRENCH NATIONAL KIDNAPPED IN NORTHERN NIGERIA…2 PERSONS KILLED

Men of the Police Mobile Force(MOPOL) on foot patrol in a terror-afflicted zone

Men of the Police Mobile Force(MOPOL) on foot patrol in a terror-afflicted zone

20/12/2012

by Aminu Abubakar
KANO, Nigeria (AFP)

A group of 30 gunmen who stormed a residence in northern Nigeria where expatriate workers were staying kidnapped a French citizen after killing two people, police said Thursday.

“I can confirm the abduction of a French national,” the Katsina state police chief,Abdullahi Magaji,told AFP of the incident late Wednesday. “The kidnappers numbering about 30 stormed the residence where the engineers of (French company) Vergnet were staying,” he said, adding that a security guard and a neighbour were shot dead in the attack. The abducted engineer had just returned from a trip outside Nigeria, he added.

Vergnet, a company that specialises in alternative energy according to its website, was working on a wind power project in Katsina. Abdullahi said the attack happened at a village called Rimi, about 25 kilometres (15 miles) from the state capital, Katsina city. “The gunmen later threw an explosive device into the police station on their way out the town to distract the police from pursuing them,” he added.

Katsina, on the border with Niger,lies in a region assailed by Boko Haram Islamists, an insurgent group that has killed hundreds in northern and central
Nigeria since 2009.Katsina has however been spared Boko Haram’s attacks, and its police chief told AFP he was confident the Islamists were not behind the kidnapping.

The extremist group says it is fighting to
create an Islamic state in Nigeria’s mainly Muslim north. Security officials have blamed Boko Haram for previous similar abductions, but the group, which frequently claims gun and bomb attacks, has never acknowledged seizing a foreign national.Following the abduction of a British and Italian in northwest Sokoto state last year, Nigeria’s government sought to blame Boko Haram. Residents however ruled out the group’s involvement, insisting it was the work of local gangs.

The two Europeans were killed in March amid a rescue operation jointly planned
with British authorities. In January,unidentified gunmen kidnapped German engineer Edgar Raupach in Kano state, which is next to Katsina. He was found dead in May in a home described as a Boko Haram hideout. A private Mauritanian news agency had reported that Raupach was taken by Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM). AQIM has not been known to operate directly in Nigeria, though Boko Haram and other extremists in the country are thought to have links to the group.

Kidnap for ransom has long been a lucrative business in Nigeria, although most such incidents have occurred in the oil-producing south, where foreigners working for energy companies have repeatedly been targeted.

In Nigeria, which is Africa’s most populous nation, most residents in the north are Muslim, while the south is
predominately Christian.

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About beegeagle

BEEG EAGLE -perspectives of an opinionated Nigerian male with a keen interest in Geopolitics, Defence and Strategic Studies
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41 Responses to FRENCH NATIONAL KIDNAPPED IN NORTHERN NIGERIA…2 PERSONS KILLED

  1. jimmy says:

    Yet another stain, how long till we get serious about forming an anti KIDNAPPING unit
    We have tons of graduates who studies sociology/ law/ psychology who are unemployed who could do a wonderful job, yet sometimes we are more interested in allocating monies for building white elephant projects. When will this government wake up to it’s fundamental responsibilities.
    1) SECURITY
    2) POWER
    3) WATER
    4) REDUCE THE LEVEL OF UNEMPLOYMENT
    5) PROSECUTION OF CRIMINALS IN A REASONABLE TIME FRAME

  2. beegeagle says:

    The FG need to come out formally and state that SECURITY is their primary focus. Nigerians cannot bemoan insecurity yet remain nonchalant about the drivers which are needed to achieve outcomes in the security sector.

    After years of a wild goose chase and putting the cart before the horse, the government of the DRC last week stated that their top three priorities are DEFENCE, DEFENCE and DEFENCE.

    Nigeria can continue her own wild goose chase of ‘competing demands’ while pirate and terror attacks and kidnapping become the mainstay activity in our public space. Our people find it impossible to prioritise and to be nimble-footed when it is imperative that they be just that.

    I am willing to bet on the fact that, happening within a 30 mile radius of the Niger-Nigeria border, these are terrorists who moved in from the Maradi-Zinder-Tahoua axis of Niger, most likely AQIM/MOJWA members, working with Nigerian syndicates who receive payoffs for helping to seize expatriates for ransom.

    • peccavi says:

      Abeg oh,I seriously beg to differ. I am a war mongering individual but Nigeria’s top 3 priorities are electricity, transport infrastructure, education. Followed by health and then defence. Providing the first 4 will cut our security problems in half

  3. beegeagle says:

    Unfortunately, the Constitution itself stipulates that the primary reason why governments exist is the provision of SECURITY for lives and property. You can check that out to be sure.

    Beyond that, Nigeria is a FEDERAL REPUBLIC with three tiers of government. Whereas the FG alone budget for defence and security,FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS concurrently enact budgets for health, agriculture, education and infrastructure. The education budget of the FG going into 2013 dwarfs that of defence. If you add the totality of FG, state and LG appropriation for education, it is almost certainly four times larger than the defence and security appropriation as things stand.

    Electricity – the FG alone have ten gas fired power plants and a 3,500 MW HEP plant at Mambilla, all worth about US$10bn under construction at this minute. When last did you have a US$500m procurement list for defence?

    It goes on – state governments such as Gombe have coal-fired plants under construction. My home state have a US$150+ million under construction.

    Do the operations of the defence and security forces have to grind to a halt before we realise that something is being done about the HEFI objectives?

    The 600km Kano-Maiduguri highway is being dualised as we speak. Ditto the 200km Abuja-Lokoja highway and the 320km Trans Niger Delta highway. The contract for the 250km Lokoja-Benin highway has just been awarded. Those projects cumulatively cost more than US$6.5 billion.

    Railways – the US$4 billion railway modernisation and guage expansion project with China is ongoing. The 1,126 km Lagos-Kano train shuttle is due to resume this week. The Abuja Monorail project is worth over US$1bn and is in the works.

    When last did this country spend US$500m on the material needs of the military? We lack enough platforms to police our ‘golden EEZ’. We lack enough airframes to police our extensive and geographically complex borders.

    With so much committed to HEFI objectives as is, do we have to offer our blood first for that demon of ‘competing demands’ to be exorcised?

    The Maitatsine crisis happened in the middle of the oil boom – at a time when British papers offered real estate for sale with ‘an Arab Sheikh or a Nigerian’ proclaimed as preferred buyer, Nigeria was a pilgrimage destination for Ghanaians and our people travelled visa free to the UK. Did that Quality of Life prevent the Maitatsine crisis from happening? With the flurry of construction to the tune of tens of billions of dollars which followed the emergence of Abuja as FCT, how many people in Niger, Nasarawa and Kaduna were lifted out of poverty?

    How many jobs have been created by the ongoing flurry of power, roads and railways construction projects..if that be the end-all solution to insecurity?

    Our history has shown that most of those 2+2=4 predicates which economic experts like to mouth off are not sacrosanct. For instance and like a mental tumour, corruption and insecurity are supposed to be immutable obstacles to economic growth. Why then are Nigeria a NEXT ELEVEN economy?

    Abeg, they have catered reasonably well enough for education, health, agriculture and infrastructure. Again, they are on the Concurrent Legislative List – funded by all tiers of government.

    About time defence and security got their own big break. The HEFI objectives enjoy a 15:1 funding advantage over defence as we speak and I cannot see anything about defence expenditure these past 30 years which nearly posed a threat to infrastructure.

    With all their infrastructure, why do Saudia, Algeria and Iran spawn so many terrorists?

    • peccavi says:

      Oga, you quote figures as if simply declaring that you have budgetted x for y makes it so.
      Have you seen any part of our education sector that has received this investment?
      How many hours of electricity do you get from you multibillion invested power plants from 1999 till today?
      How many km or railways have the multi billion investment given us from then till today.
      Its immaterial whether the funds are split between 3 tiers of government or not th point is non of these investments and billion naira figures have produced anything worthwhile.
      So how exactly will spending billions on defence not produce the same result?
      If that money was being spent properly we would have something to show for it and not be in this mess but it is being chopped and siphoned with an impunity that defies logic.
      Saudi Arabia, Algeria and Iran, each of those countries has specific problems. Saudi has a corrupt elite that lives a hedonistic life while oppressing the Shia and funding and ultra conservative Wahhabi brand of Islam. It is puritanical and evangelical. Iran had an Islamic revolution, Algeria had a secular government annul an election won by Islamists. In non of these casus belli was an argument about poverty.
      Please let me know of a single non connected Nigerian thsat thinks Nigeria is on the right path.
      I can argue till I’m blue in the face though, because we will see another huge defence budget, with inflated contracts etc, we were promised God knows what MW this December, we wait and see what excuses we will get.
      Nigeria does not face ANY significant military threats, every one of our security problems is internal and based around criminality and political corruption. We have no foreign threats or foreign sponsors of our issues. But lets buy tanks instead of paying teachers and pensioners

  4. beegeagle says:

    I am talking abour projects which commenced after 2007 and which are ongoing. Go and SEE the Lokoja-Abuja or Kano-MDGR road dualisation projects.

    Nobody specified what has to be bought and saying that Nigeria faces no significant military foe, even as the military of Chad and navy of Equatorial Guinea are massively arming up amounts to complacency. Find out what Chad’s military looked like before 2004 when they began to export oil and see where they are now. Chad and Equatorial Guinea share frontiers with Nigeria. In any case, the essence of DEFENCE is partly or wholly pre-emptory.

    Blame the output of under-performing ministries on bureaucracy, corruption and abscondee contractors but defence expenditure was never and is not the obstacle to national development in Nigeria. Infact, the records show clearly that defence sector contracts boast the highest completion rates of all.

    We knew when contracts for F7 jets were signed and they have been delivered. The construction of Yar’Adua barracks in Abuja commenced in June 2009 and it was commissioned in March 2010.Some secretariat complex whose construction commenced under a different ministry at the same time remains unfinished. So you would rather defence suffers for the tardiness and inefficiency of others?

    We knew when contracts for Agusta helicopters, Alenia airplanes and Sea Eagle OPCs were signed in 2008-9, Otokar Cobra APCs in 2007 and Super Puma helics in 2010. They have all been delivered. Almost invariably, defence contracts get executed to the letter and quickly as possible.

    This year, orders were placed for Shaldag and OCEA patrol craft. The OCEA craft commenced sea trials early in March, even before the FG budget was approved in mid-March. The Shaldags and OCEA craft are in already. That is the established trend in defence procurement. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that defence expenditure was nearly the problem in Nigeria. Infact, if you want to ensure that deliveries almost invariably follow on the heels of orders, try acquiring military hardware.

    Go and see what the South-South states governors are doing to turn around health and education. It has impacted more meaninfully than all the intervention which Abuja have ever attempted and suggests that so much can be achieved at the level of states and LGAs (0-2 years for oil states; 3-5 years for others)if politicians at that level set their minds to it. So how does defence and security, the FG’s exclusive purview, become the obstacle when states can do so much and when the education budget at the FG level even exceeds defence and security expenditure – never mind counterpart funding by states and LGAs in health, education, agric and infrastructure ?

    In a Nigeria where some states spend $800 million on education whereas the FG have not spent US$400m on defence procurement in any one year since the early 1980s, the attempt to make a non-existent drainpipe of defence expenditure is null and void.

    Any Nigerian who follows the news knows that the current N100 bn Pension Fund scam was not diverted to defence procurement. Neither were education or health budgets,

    So if we are not satisfied with completion rates in the said sectors, blame the technocrats. If we see corruption, alert the EFCC. What I refuse to accept is the suggestion that the defence sector be bled dry so as to recoup the losses of under-performing sectors.

    And for one who harps on the need to adhere to rules, what do you have to say for the immutable and unconditional constitutional stipulates which proclaims the primary business of governments to be the provision of security and the protection of loves and property? It did make any distinction between internal and external threats – same way it charges the military to defend the country from internal threats and external aggression. Our Constitution does not make the primacy of security as the core business of governance, conditional.

    We need MRAPs, utility, surveillance and attack helicopters, CPCs, OPVs and LPDs..even if you say that we do not need tanks.

    The JTF – Niger Delta are able to enfocrce the precepts of the Amnesty Process and are firmly the pursuers today because the FG let go of hollow rhetoric and long-term gameplans and acquired hundreds of gunboats and landing craft for the lawless precincts to be patrolled.

    I suggest that Nigeria the much cheaper option of confronting the threat directly instead of overly fixating on options which may not have the desired effect a decade from today. We should confront the challenge frontally while addreasing perceived causative factors.

    The Decree 20 of 1984 legislated against the same illlegal bunkering. Three decades down the line, I doubt that the most realistic approach requires that we wait another two decades for alternative livelihoods to be created and with that, an end to illegal bunkering. Allowing the perpetrators to remain in business while far-sighted solutions are executed would simply put billions of dollars in their hands with which they shall readjust to new realities and subvert measures aimed at enforcing the law, Ibori style?

    At some point, Mexico were mouthing off about the need to create alternative livelihoods for drug runners while downplaying the need for a crackdown. Talk about development as the be all and end all to the exclusion of the nature and motivations of man. Eventually, Mexican druglords won control of 40% of Mexican cities and have since then mounted a narco-insurgency. Only then did the Mexican FG let go of textbook rhetoric about creating alternative livelihoods while druglords expanded their empires and acquired more arms in the interim, ultimately negating the best efforts of pacifist schemes which curiously assume that man is essentially harmless.

    This is Nigeria where those commonsense one-size-fits-all prescriptions which emanate from the West always get upturned. Nigerians mostly respond to the touch of a lion and not that of a lamb. That was the Idiagbon effect. When you see the problem, attack same as is. Invariably, the causative factors thereafter align themselves to prevailing realities. When the Igbos found themselves cash-strapped and on the margins of human existence following the Civil War, they turned to entrepreneurship. That was their response to poverty – not terrorism or piracy. So the belief that terrorists and pirates cannot be stampeded into seeking out new ways and means of staying alive does not cohere with our peculiar Nigerian reality.

    Poverty or not, if BH had been pursued and clinically dismantled by intelligence agencies after the 2009 uprising, they would not have had the breather which allowed them to regroup anf come back stronger.

    In any case, we lived much better in the 1979-84 epoch and that did not stop the Maitatsine sect, which killed more people in Kano over a two-week period at Xmas 1980 than BH have managed since 2009, from emerging. Enough of the ‘no malaise or violence in the face of full stomachs’ theory.

    Neither Shagari nor Buhari gave Maitatsine any palliatives or amnesty. They attacked and scattered their militants and ultimately, the group sought other engagements outside the business of slashing throats.

    Insecurity, infrastructure deficits and corruption are supposedly antithetical to economic growth and development. Nigeria confounded all of that to emerge a NEXT ELEVEN economy.

    CTCOIN operative manuals talk about people balking at the sight of menacing armoured vehicles. Guess what? Our people worship with heads bowed in the shadows of armoured vehicles and wave jubilantly at the sight of same.

    I would rather seek options which have worked for Nigeria rather than keying into prescriptions steeped in anecdotes as wholly excerpted from manuals sourced from distant lands where the mindsets and cultures are different.

  5. peccavi says:

    The constitution stipulates many things, from the Federal character requirement, to the local procurement requirement etc etc. Most are flouted or ignored.
    Threats to lives and property in Nigeria, lets take the following
    Kidnapping: what is the military solution?
    Armed Robbery:what is the military solution?
    Desertification: what is the military solution?
    Erosion: what is the military solution?
    Oil spills: what is the military solution
    Gas flaring: what is the military solution?
    Terrorism: what is the military solution
    Unsafe roads:what is the military solution?
    Inadequate healthcare:what is the military solution?

    Mexico has a militarised solution to its drug problem, shebi its working? The flow of drugs has in anyway stopped or lessened? The casualty figures are going down? The government has control of its northern borders? The cartels are less powerful?
    The militarised approach has not changed a damn thing, this is not because the militarised approach is wrong in itself but simply because the demand is high enough and the rewards sufficient to allow the cartels to fight fire with fire. In essence there is nothing Mexico can do as long as the US consumes that much narcotics. Its straight forward demand and supply.

    The Igbo’s did not turn to entrepreneurship. Igbo’s have always been entrepreneurial; that was one of the gripes everyone had with them, that led to the massacres and the war.

    The Niger Delta insurgency ended by buying off the insurgent leaders, non of them has stood trial or given account of their actions. They are now billionaires while the delta is still an oil encrusted wasteland. Once GEJ leaves there will be another insurgency. For the simple reason that nothing has been done to address the root causes of the problems and all the surviving trouble makers and political thugs ended up as rich men.
    With all the gun boats etc et, bunkering, kidnapping etc still takes place with relative ease.

    Of course slaughtering 1000’s during the Maitatsine riots was effective. Hence why the same solution was prescribed when BH started in 2009. Worked out really well didn’t it.

    A country that fought a war wiping out 2m of its people to keep the country one happily handed over a group of people to another country despite those people actively campaigning to be Nigerians till this day. All without a fight. Shebi its EG and Chad we are worried about? Because if they come to challenge us we will crush them or our awesome leaders will cave in and hand over Nigerian territory and citizens without a fight?

    Currently an Indian man is languising in jail for laundering money from Nigerian defence contracts. The much vaunted coastal radar is not working.

    My family libes in the south south, I can tell you personally about the billions spent on health and education. This is of course why I keep bumping into the scions of the political classes schooling, living in London.

    No one is stupid enough to think if you build a road everyone will join hands and sing alleluia, the point is that the political calculations necessary to get things going are the same as those that will end insurgency.
    Once politicians begin to guarantee their longevity through service delivery rather than thuggery then the sponsorship of the MENDs, BHs etc of this world will dry up.
    Once Nigerians have a fair chance at creating something for themselves there will be less people willing to risk death through armed robbery, terrorism or kidnapping.
    Once money is being spent in and on the country, on things that will endure and are to the benefit of the entire population then we will have genuine country. Other than that all we will have is a military running round and round protecting politicians.

    Anyway all this talk I’m talking is immaterial.
    The Nigerian solution is to spend billions, fail to achieve the goal, spend more billions to correct the failure,fail again, and then spend billions on an alternative that still doesn’t work and then reward the failures with higher political office and honours.

    On the plus side at the operational level the Nigerian Armed Forces seems to be doing the right structural and doctrinal things for our current security climate. However strategically we are as useless and rudderless as ever.
    2013 will be as bloody and traumatic as 2012, as will be 2014 and 2015 will be our gotterdamrung.

    But don’t worry, I’m sure we’ll have plenty of MRAPs by then

  6. beegeagle says:

    My friend, perhaps you lend an ear to negative news all too easily? Which coastal radar is not working? I beg, go easy on the broadsides for the heck of it. Na so you tok say GOC dey do gun-running last time.

    http://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/nigerian-navy-seize-belgian-ship-for-illegal-bunkering-6-romanians-and-9-filipinos-arrested-•-spotted-by-regional-maritime-awareness-coastal-radar-stations-•-seized-after-hours-long/

    Do you just say stuff to back up your viewpoints whether or not they are true? The defence contracts enumerated, were they carried through to completion or not? Is Kuje barracks an abandoned project? Yar’Adua barracks?

    Pointing me to the four directions of the wind begs the question. WHAT is stipulated as the foremost concern of governments in the 1999 Constitution? It is security. That is incontrovertible. Subjecting clearcut stipulates to subjective interpretations for the sake of advancing an unclear point does not pull the wool over my eyes.

    I have not anywhere suggested that Ndigbo became entrepreneurs after the War. The 1945 riots in Jos targeted Ibos over economic grievances, so I doubt that my understanding of Nigerian history or geography is foggy in the slightest way. I am saying that after the War and in the face of economic strangulation, the Ibo turned to entrepreneurship, at home, around Nigeria and outside our shores – with Biafra markets even springing up in Benin Republic and Cameroon. That is an alternative route to the attainment of an end – not this idea of government creating alternative livelihoods for Boko Haram apologists and terrorists or a Marshall Plan. If the Ibos did it and live better than the peoples in NE Nigeria, the attempt to hold the FG responsible for the plight of every Nigerian malcontent is merely of academic value and bears no toehold in reality. FG intervention is not the only way by which a people can improve their material wellbeing. The Ibos of Nigeria are the poster children of that assertion

    You only see economic causes. If GEJ quits today, the Niger Delta Insurgency will resume full throttle as payback for the Boko Haram ambush scripted by another section of the country’s political elite. You underestimate the depth of anger and incandescence in the Niger Delta at what is seen as an arrogant reluctance by some Nigerians to allow a gson of the Niger Delta to rule Nigeria, despite their own historical antecedents of supporting those other Nigerians to grab power at the federal level.

    If you think that bunkering will disappear overnight in the middle of a latent insurgency, even as it has existed for decades, think again.

    YES, I say again that the FG allowed BH a breather in 2009 and that was why they were able to bounce back redefined. When they had them on the ropes, they should have finished them off ala Maitatsine.If they need food, they should go and farm or trade and move out from squatting under trees. They need to hanker less after government patronage. The Igbos were systematically schemed out from government-led politicoeconomic patronage by minions of the same BH godfathers. Ndigbo still live better regardless.

    As an undergraduate, we learnt in a General Studies class that there existed a road (trade route) between Badagry and Sokoto ever before colonialists arrived and Hausa merchants were already trading at Opobo. Long years of idling unproductively on the corridors of power has created the erroneous impression that the North can only be uplifted by government patronage. Ndigbo hit ZERO after the war. Look at them now – even with all the decades of marginalisation.

    My brother, seeing undergraduates abroad means what? Even when our education system was in top shape, did Nigerians not leave UI and UNILAG which produced Nobel Laureate Wole Soyinka and Pullitzer Prize winner Dele Olojede to go and school abroad. If you schooled in Rivers State, no primary or secondary public school of your day had the facilities which exist in today’s Rivers State. If the kids cannot bend down and read, whose fault is that?

    Oh, so there is nothing that Mexico can do for as long as the USA remain major consumers of cocaine? So how come you do not know that part of the bunkering problem stems from the huge demand for premium quality Nigerian crude, qualitatively better than the benchmark Brent Crude?The bulk of the oil bunkered and hijacked tankers whose oil cargoes get siphoned off end up in the international black markets, with Russian, Vietnamese, Bulgarian, Filipino, Belgian, Romanian and Latin American buyers of illicit crude apprehended ever so often? Ever heard of the push for oil supplies to be vetted ala diamonds – so that we have ‘blood oil’ in much the same way as we have ‘blood diamonds’, just so that international racketeers are preempted?

    By the way, the security situation in Mexico is improving. Get to google. Not everyone headed for the border with the US is intent on carrying drugs. Some are just seeking the American dream. Border security, regardless of hi-tech gadgetry, has always been a problem along the US-Mexican border, same way it is along the Nigeria-Niger border with Mexicans and Nigeriens pouring into the USA and Nigeria in search of better livelihoods.

    I restate the FACT that completion rates on defence contracts exceed 90%. Since 2000, the FG have placed orders for Mi-24V/Mi-35P/Mi-34/Mi-171Sh helicopters, Super Puma helicopters, Manta ASD Littoral Interceptors, Sea Eagle OPCs, modernised MT-LB and BTR 70 APC, GILA MRAPs, Otokar Cobra APCs, BTR-3 APCs, F7 AirGuard jets, Agusta A109e/A109LUH/AW 139 helicopters, Alenia ATR 42-500MP Surveyor planes, Shaldag and OCEA Coastal Patrol Craft, just to mention a few. Beyond broadsides, can you show me one in which the deliveries have not been completed as we speak? That is defence contracting for you.

    Compare that to all the uncompleted and/or abandoned projects – dams, hospitals etc. Did MoD cause those to be abandoned? Why then do you always seek to have the military’s best interests stifled all the time – no MRAPs, no this or that? Why don’t they pursue terrorists on foot then so that they pursue low-tech CTCOIN operations at low cost, even when lives are being lost? When they say the vehicles are a deathtrap, you blame it on tactics or something else just to stifle that legitimate demand that our troops travel in better protected vehicles? When that is not the case, it is ‘can we afford it?’.

    250 Casspirs would not cost the FG US$100m. Does anyone have anything to gain from an under-served Nigerian military or could it be :-) that you somehow want them to fail so that the US-Nigeria synergy can be replaced by a UK-Nigeria alliance..knowing that you have no love to give the USA?

    Jokes apart, how much by way of economic losses has the insurgency cost us already while we hold up a CTCOIN manual and before we bring it down, a suicide bomber with VBIEDs accelerates from a position of ambush to drive a wedge between two soft-skinned 4WDs and kills soldiers in the ensuing blast. Rather than admit that the vehicles are soft targets – reason why terrorists have increasingly targetted them – and that we need better protected vehicles, we spend time debating cheapskate, life-threatening tactics so that we do not spend money?

    • peccavi says:

      Oga the commander Western Naval Command was in London, I asked him about the radar and he said its not working. Maybe he was wrong or just talking about his sector, I was unable to get him to qualify his answer. The context of the question was as to why this radar is no more useful in terms of stemming piracy, bunkering and armed robbery at sea as it should create a clear ‘pattern of life’ for authorities. He also mentioned PICOMMS was no more, can’t establish if thats true or not.
      So that’s my source for that one, on the plus side there was very positive news about Op Prosperity etc etc.

      On Mexico, thank you for proving my point despite the high tech resources at its disposal the US cannot seal its borders to drugs or people. So maybe loading up on high tech goods is not the answer. And the matrix by which to judge the success of the Mexican drug war is the quantity, variety and price of Mexican supplied drugs in the US. They have not in the slightest bit fluctuated, in fact they have got cheaper. This means the military ops are having no effect on drug cartels main operations. In other words their profit are so vast they can afford to fight each other and the government and absorb the costs. The Mexican drug war is fascinating from a COIN, criminal and military point of view but doesn’t in anyway have any messages for Nigeria.

      Nigeria is not the only producer of sweet crude. Do you see bunkering in EG/ Algeria/ Angola/ Mexico/ Norway/ Scotland/ Saudi Arabia/ Kuwait/ Iran/ Russia etc?
      What is it they are doing that we are not?
      The simple thing is in those countries they have governments that while not perfect at least maintain a bare minimum of control over their resources and territory.
      If Nigeria wants to end bunkering it will. This is why I always ask about prosecutions, if there is no consequence for doing bad things why stop? You can buy as many platforms as you want but if all it takes is a phone call from a big man to get a vessel released then so what? How many convictions have we had for bunkering?

      No one is arguing that the government needs to take everyone by the hand and lead them to work and then feed them and wipe their ass, the argument is that they should provide the common basic things that a government should provide such as transport infrastructure, power, fuel, health and education. I schooled in PH no school I have seen is producing the calibre of people on a consistent level as my alma mater. If you have money you go to private school if you go to government school its hit and miss. Your telling me if a child cant read and write its their fault? Maybe better trained teachers with better pay would be a start. But again this is the Nigerian problem of accepting mediocrity without question.

      The North prior to colonisation consisted of independent Kingdoms, prior to independence it had a reasonably good agric system that would have kept it self sufficient and if it had been built upon or even kept the same would have made the North quie wealthy today. Instead the Northern politicians destroyed their own industries and pauperised their own people and yet today these self same people or groups of people use BH and co to kill their fellow Nigerians without the slightest impediment.
      So you think buying MRAP’s and UAV’s is going to have the slightest impact on people that have stolen and stolen with impunity, are safe from arrest and prosecution and have their families safe abroad?
      The objective of BH is not to Islamise Nigeria. The objective of BH is create the conditions whereby not electing/ selecting a Northern politician for the Presidency will cause so much bloodshed that the rest of Nigeria will automatically cave in for a peaceful life.
      The objective of these Northern politicians is not to turn the North into Dubai or the American Mid west but to chop money.
      And they have the cannon fodder in the poor, uneducated, brainwashed teeming masses in their region.
      So let me ask you, what is the best way to end the crisis. Keep killing BH foot soldiers until there are non left or arrest the people behind them?

      Because option A is impossible. If it was possible Iraq and Afghanistan would be model US client states with McDonalds on every corner and Pepsi as the national drink

      You keep telling me security is the priority of the Nigerian state as per the constitution.
      No problem
      I’ve listed other issues that are threats to Nigerian lives and properties, or does security only begin and end when you can shoot someone?

  7. beegeagle says:

    Okay, good for you. Just know that no school in Rivers State – be it at Elekahia, Ubima, Ahoada, Degema, Omuma or Eleme of the 1980s and 1990s can boast of the infrastructure available in today’s school system in Rivers State – computers, learning aids, free uniforms, airconditioned classes. Ehen..not even Bereton!

    So my saying whose fault is it is because you leave everything on the doorsteps of government. Back in the day, we used to write the National Common Entrance examinations into Federal Government Colleges in December of every year(first term of Primary 6). So I commenced preparation in Primary 5 2nd Term(March). My dad bought me a book as fat as a university textbook – it was titled “Preparing for the Secondary School” by FN Onaku. That was all. No home tutor. I went through the 300+ page book four times before December. I was eight years old and needed no prompting by anyone. The exams came and I scored 305 on 400, went for the interview and scored 94.3% and got admitted into the great citadel on the National Merit List – no quota, no federal character.

    Today, what do we have? Kids won’t read but expect to pass OR parents herd them off to ‘miracle centres’ to get cooked up results and when they can’t cheat the system, they come out reeling at the bottom of the class. So why should I blame the government – knowing where I am coming from myself?

    Perhaps you have never heard about the National Teachers Institute at Kaduna which has learning centres nationwide ala the Open University and which conducts recurrency training for teachers by the tens of thousands every year. Get to google and see.

    Concerning pay, do teachers operate on a lower salary scale than civil servants do? How many upward reviews of salaries have the NLC exacted from the FG and State Govts these past 5 years?

    Professors swear by Obasanjo’s name today. Most of those who could not get slots for sabbatical leave abroad were factually pauperised until OBJ came along. In 8 years, they had about four upward reviews. Today, eggheads buy cars by the multiples. We are not yet there but pretending that nothing is happening amounts to blatant falsehood. You only need to look at the FG’s own education budget to see how far that sector has become prioritised.

    Another phenomenal success story in our healthcare sector is the Midwives Service Scheme. Get to google and see how that has impacted lives from the angle of maternal and child health.

    You are from Rivers State, I come from Delta State. The combined education budgets of our two states exceeds the combined total national budgets of Rwanda and Burundi. We have less than half of their combined population. With all the rave reviews which they enjoy, I dare say that Rivers State since 2007 have put in place better education and healthcare infrastructure than Rwanda have managed under Kagame. And you want me to paint everyone and everything with the same pessimistic brush?

    Sometimes, we tend to be broad on generalisation and low on specifics. Perhaps that stems from preconceived notions.

    • peccavi says:

      Bros I’m not from Rivers State I just grew up there and I didn’t go to Brereton, I no be rich man pikin, it was FGC all the way.
      Like you I had the good family structure that Nigerians of our generation take as normal yet even then when taking JAMB you had parents coming to buy papers for their kids. This is the issue at hand not the AC or computer in schools, the notion that the only way to get ahead is to cheat and steal. And how can you preach otherwise, criminals flourish, they get perpetual injunctions, ministerial posts, and national honours. The patronage system distorts the private sector as these people enter a sector and overwhelm it killing competitors because they have oodles of cash. Sometimes this is beneficial like in the mobile phone sector, but in general its bad.
      I am yet to see lecturers with multiple cars, and I know a few, one is staying with me now doing their phd here. It is not a picture of rosiness they paint.
      The Nigerian students here are not beating the oyibos hands down because of the awesome facilities but because as Naija people they are naturally good.
      Maybe you will understand my anger when you see what Nigerians can do in the right circumstance, I went to an Engineering awards event and of the shortlisted candidates half were Nigerians, a Naija girl won.
      In the UK civil service, power, transport and son on you have Nigerians. The US Embassy consul is Naija. The only black person in the Polish parliament is a Nigerian.
      Everyone recognises our abilities except our leaders.
      Countries with .001% of our resources somehow manage to keep the lights on, railways running and roads tarred.
      Nothing we need to do is hard. Other African countries where their people cannot even add 1 +1 are forging ahead and we are still celebrating having power for 30 minutes a day

  8. beegeagle says:

    Earlier this year, Rear Admiral Ogbor Chief of Training and Operations was appointed Chairman of an Inter Agency Maritime Cooperation Committee.

    PICOMSS was meant to morph into a Maritime Security Agency. That idea hit the rocks at the National Assembly. As of October, AVM Atawodi was still being addressed as PICOMSS chairman.

    Maybe you did not hear the FOC well or your line of questioning was geared towards getting him to tell you that the systems are not working, so he obliged you :). The US Navy and the FG are working on the RMACC coastal radar project together. There is no way in the world that the US Navy would involve themselves in a dud of that nature. There are enough chaps in the USN/USCG who read this blog and would have told me as swiftly as they did when they alerted me to the fact that the same way that they let me know when the NN placed a request for the USCGC Jarvis. The NN SBS chaps who champion the CP operations and use the coastal radar system would have told me – same way I was told that the RBS Defender response boats lack of a walkaround space impedes the capacity to swivel weapons 180 degrees. Tok anoda tin abeg.

    I totally AGREE with you that the minders of the terrorists should be seized and prosecuted. But the terrorists, like the al-Majiri kids who are used in inter-religious conflicts, should be dropped pronto with headshots if and when they engage the JSTF in gun battles or ambushed. NOTHING justifies the bestial action which BH have foisted on our polity for whatever reason.

    If the gameplan is to frighten the rest of Nigeria from seeking the levers of federal power(which is sadly part of the plan), it has failed already because as soon as we have a northern-born President again, militancy and mind-boggling sabotage of oil facilities shall resume in the Niger Delta. So those who scripted that gameplan need to climb down from folly. NOBODY is intimidated by that. There are many who are waiting to commence bloodletting if Boko Haram bring their stupidity to the Southeast or Niger Delta. Remember what happened at Onitsha and Sapele last Xmas when BH ordered non-muslims and southerners out of the North? So they need to ‘bench’ that dead plan. It is never going to work. ALL NIGERIANS shall always and forever reserve the right to aspire to the Presidency or life shall remain brutish, nasty and short for one and all across the Federation. The innocence of yesteryears such as led to a 20 year-long stranglehold on power by Presidents from one region and religion CAN NEVER happen again. So they should forget it. We ready to die put di mata.

    Crude from the Arabian Gulf is sulphur-laden and qualitatively inferior to ours – Saudia, Iran, Kuwait. We bench dem for dat wan. They may not have an issue with bunkering but Nigeria are not the sole source of illicit oil – Indonesia, Malaysia, Russia are into the business too.

    We had conflict diamonds and conflict petroleum in Angola all at once

    http://geology.about.com/od/conflictminerals/Conflict_Minerals.htm

    MRAPs are NOT hi-tech, my man. They are mission-specific. The V-hull, clearance and high wheel arches blow shrapnel to free pockets while the armour plating defends again rifle ammo. Tis all about smart physics. That is why even demining firms know what the Casspir represents.

    To counter the threat posed by landmines, racist Rhodesian and South African troops used MRAPs. To counter the IED threat, India acquired Casspir MRAPs while Sri Lanka grabbed Buffel MRAPs aplenty. For Iraq and Afganistan ops, America built and deployed more MRAPs than the rest of the world put together.

    WHY should we lay off MRAPs? We need them and we need more signal jammers as well.

    • peccavi says:

      I concur, we need MRAP’s, UAV’s, jammers, metal detectors, advanced communications, APC’s attack helicopters, ground attack, air superiority fighters, OPVs helicopter carriers, support helicopters, recce helicopters etc.
      But not over and above roads, power, fuel, food , schools and healthcare.

      MRAPs are not high tech, but they are also not a solution, they are a tool to help create the conditions for a solution.
      I have no objection to killing the type of cattle who think that blowing people up in church, shooting people in their homes or places of work and so on is the way forward but I’d much rather prevent us from getting to that point in the first place.
      This is what I mean by strategic rudderlessness, all the military can do is create a space for a political solution. If that solution is simply to settle the ringleaders leaving the followers armed and angry then you are just saving your problems for tomorrow. I completely agree that the Delta will rise again once Pres. Jonathan leaves.
      So wouldn’t a sane government start putting in measures to prevent this from recurring.
      Non of the measures I’ve mentioned before about manpower intensive job creation schemes come from a bleeding heart perspective, it has a simple military function. To put working age (i.e. fighting age) men into a place where you can monitor them, i.e the work place. This means they are too busy during the day and too tired at night. They also have money in the pocket which gives them an added incentive not to be naughty.

      • jimmy says:

        nah wah o! I could barely keep up o chineke olorun oba o . you know we went around the world witht oga beegeagle and peccavi . I went from the bowels of THE NIGER DELTA TO THE ARTIC COLD OF NORWAY BACK TO SAUDI ARABIA DOWN TO ANGOLA ON TO THE HUMID ISLANDS OF INDONESIA
        Boy i wanted to reply oga peccavvi about my second and third country united states and but both of una no gree me land.
        Two of ua go become jefferson and quincy adams o ! each one will become president and have very divergent views on every thing.

  9. Wocon45 says:

    Mehnnn! @ oga beege and peccavi, una dey tryooooo. Am impressed by your indebt knowledge on the real issues on the ground. Keep it up, your contributions are a source of inspiration to some of us.

  10. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S In reply to Beegeagle.

    Damn…what an analysis, I hope
    everybody else is as mesmerised by this articulation in thoughts as I am. But as it I am more inclined towards
    @peccavi’s take on strategic solutions.

    I earnestly believe Beeg and Nigeria as a nation are over focusing on military solutions above all the other possible legitimate conduits that can equally address towards an agreed resolution or the perception of it.

    Consider this even Somalia is negotiating with Al-Shabaab or at least trying to, at various intermittent levels,and yet they are more of an international terrorist organisation, than Nigeria’s BH menace, and all the analytical specialists watching concerned can attest to this in consideration to the emergent policies or lack of them….

    Believe me, in diplomatically challenging times like this it’s easier to wait for the next government for a diplomatic- situational reassessment….

    Anyway in regards to why @Peccavi’s
    thinking, it’s simply because he’s
    acknowledged that regardless of the
    assumed poor state of Nigerian politics and diplomacy, the strategic solutions to BH, Delta or any other incumbent political grouping lies in the ‘true politics and diplomacy’….it’s not going to be easy, oh no…and at times it might involve the military hopefully in mitigated stages. After all soldiers don’t like killing their own long-term,whatever the reason behind it.

    In regards to National Development
    projects and all…they are based on
    credit lines, either Internal or external or where it’s the case, it’s a matter of profit, in the modern economic Africa finally predominantly underwritten by
    the public, way after stringent analysis, studies and consultations…even China won’t break away from that reality without a strategic rationale…hell no!!!

    In regards to African Military
    expenditure, it’s either cash or
    collateral (re-contracts or new
    contracts) or maybe if your mutually-
    diplomatically (UN etc. votes) active
    enough a ‘donation’…credit lines hardly exist if at all, there is no money other than losses to be made, we hardly have a retaining and maintenance cultures, think about it…would you even bid to provide insurance!!?

    @Beeg…Please educate us on your understanding of the idea of security in relation to governance…..

    @Beeg…Consider my opinion of
    prevalent politics, and try and find a
    footing into whichever expresses your opinions best;

    1. Expeditionary politics – The lot of the ‘super-powers’, international policies and the condescending and patronising crap in between. Apparently China is changing all this, how can one tell they are by all inferences in regards to understanding…3rd world still if you
    believe…

    2. Colonial remnant politics – of the old Europe, especially protective and
    reactionary to old colonial commerce, extremely blurred differentials in politics and diplomacy

    3. Emotive politics – the national
    psychological up and downs of Arab
    League, especially as witnessed by the ‘Arab spring’ and the pre-era of anti- terrorism

    4. Tribal politics – The politics of the
    modern day Africa, where nationhood is assumed/known to exist amongst the tribal rhetoric’s. In regards to democracy, not necessarily a populist negative, but popular political hindrance…..

    If only our governments could find a
    consistency, and set aside their prides, and affirm to resolve short and long-term cultural, economic or political differences in a manner that reflects strategic understanding, nurturing and upgrading of cultural commerce…

  11. doziex says:

    Nnah men !! I will return on my day off work to enjoy this titanic battle of the nigerian vs the anglo -nigerian brainiacs.

    hehehe it seems like great stuff.

  12. beegeagle says:

    There are several dimensions to security, D-E-S…physical security(the reason why human societies evolved ab initio), food security, social security etc. Relatedly, there are collaborative regional and economic security initiatives. This was why in 1975, Nigeria and Togo led West Africa to establish ECOWAS with its far-sighted objectives of increased intra-regional trade, labour mobility and security. By 1977, we had the Protocol on Free Movement of Goods and Persons initialled(a decade ahead of the coming into being of the SCHENGEN zone in Europe!) and that regional understanding also gave rise to ECOMOG in 1990.

    For 35 years in West Africa, it has been possible for anyone to travel visa-free within the fifteen republics of the sub-region. There are still discriminatory tariff regimes and micronationalist cogs towards realising that macroentity but it has advanced so far ahead – with legislative and judicial appendages not to mention the ECOMOG which has influenced the idea of regional standby brigades in Africa today.

    Be that as it may, let me focus on Nigeria. For reasons related to our own unique experience, the spirit and letter of the Constitution is clear about certain things. Every philosophy is after all, culture-bound.

    The Nigerian Consitution holds the following as sacrosanct.

    – the primacy of the need to secure lives and property as the core business of governance.

    (this should not surprise anyone in a decidedly volatile Nigeria which sans insurgencies and wars has probably the blodiest record of ethnoreligious violence in Africa)

    – the indivisibility and indissolubility of the Federation of Nigeria and the inviolability of its federal character.

    (we are Africa’s oldest federation wef 1954 and that already stemmed from the great diversity of this country. ‘Ethnologue’ lists 514 linguistic groups for Nigeria while the FG assumes 374 ethnic groups. It is Africa’s most diverse nation and the internal contradictions even under colonial rule necessitated the adoption of the federal system of government.

    By the same token, the bit about indivisibility and indissolubility stems from our experience of having endured a war of secession)

    I am aware that the Nigerian Federal Constitution has inspired, wholly or partly, efforts at diversity management via federalism/devolution of powers in the DR Congo, Sudan, South Sudan, South Africa and Ethiopia.

    Regardless, whereas the Ethiopian Constitution ensrines the right of her regions to secede, the Nigerian Constitution from which it was cloned is emphatic on the indissolubility of the Nigerian Federation.

    To each, his own.

  13. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    In reply to beegeagle. @Beeg…Quote]…”I am aware that the Nigerian Federal Constitution has inspired, wholly or partly, efforts at diversity management via federalism/devolution of powers in the DR Congo,Sudan, South Sudan, South Africa and Ethiopia.Regardless, whereas the Ethiopian Constitution ensrines the
    right of her regions to secede, the
    Nigerian Constitution from which it was cloned is emphatic on the indissolubility of the Nigerian Federation”…[End quote]

    Brother I won’t assume that it’s enough
    to accept a broad summation….explain
    yourself of the above please!!!….

  14. beegeagle says:

    Okay, all of those countries adopted federal or quasi-federal Constitutions these past twenty years. Nigeria, an African country, which had managed her sharper internal cleavages was the natural place to turn for a heads-up.

    After years of trying to macromanage diverse peoples under unitary systems of government at great cost to lives and national stability, most appear to have realised that upholding the maxim of unity in diversity which is entailed in federalism, appeared to be a better means of diversity management.

    Nigeria, which had been practising federalism for all of her post-independence life and for four or five decades longer, was the natural place to turn to for an African application of same.

    We saw as one by one, the aforementioned countries came to Nigeria to understudy the practice of federalism here. The constant was “came to learn from the Nigerian practice of federalism” and “seek guidance on the application of a federal constitution”. That provided a blueprint which was sometimes augmented by some other federal constitutions from elsewhere such as Australia, India, Canada and the USA.

    South Africa blended Nigerian, Canadian and Australian tenets to suit its local environment and the needs of its majority African and minority white populations. During the Suncity talks and settlement which gave rise to a new Constitution with the likes of Bemba emerging as Vice Presidents, DR Congo also reached out to Nigeria for guidance. Ethiopia had come much earlier while pre-partition Sudan(now Sudan and South Sudan) also came along after which ‘states’ replaced ‘provinces’. Sudan needed to strike a balance between the needs of its muslim North and christian South which had led to both civil wars, while Nigeria had managed very similar contradictions with much less violence. So they came to borrow a leaf.

    Because of the greater similarities in the internal cleavages between Nigeria and the pre-partition Sudan, that country borrowed more extensively than all else from Nigeria’s federalism. Perhaps that was payback time, for in the 1950s, Northern Nigeria similarly cloned the laws of Northern Sudan extensively on account of both being majorly muslim components..just as Southern Nigeria and South Sudan were largely christian as well.

    In Nigeria, the states of the North operate the Penal Code while the states of the South operate the Criminal Code. Up north they have Sharia Courts of Appeal while down south, we have Customary Courts of Appeal. Diversity management in the administration of justice. Perhaps you now understand why I said that Northern Nigeria borrowed from the laws of NORTHERN SUDAN to arrive at her Penal Code – a regional compendium of laws.

    Concerning Ethiopia, they modified their own Constitution such that it allows her regions the right of self-determination(read secession). The Nigerian Constitution from which it borrowed extensively states that Nigeria is indivisible and the federation, cannot be dissolved.

    Lemme know what else is unclear.

  15. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    @Beeg…Quote]…”Lemme know what
    else is unclear.”…[End quote]

    You are assuming by been the first
    assumed post-colonial sovereign entity
    to assume federacy….the rest copied
    you. You are about to start a long winding legal argument that you’ve
    pre-empted with the Sudan. But again
    if you want to start an argument let’s
    start with the definition of political
    federalism and devolution

  16. beegeagle says:

    On the contrary, D-E-S, sometimes when we tell it, move on because that is precisely what happened. I try to go straight to the point, being a busy moderator. Perhaps you are thinking IGAD and the Sudan CPA. No, they did not clone federalism from Ethiopia and we KNOW when Ethiopia and Sudan came here to understudy Nigerian federalism.

    People seek to learn from the experiences of others who are most similar to them. For an African nation, that would naturally be Nigeria. Ethiopia cloned her federalism from Nigeria and not even the IGAD-sponsored Naivasha Talks prevented Sudan from coming here to understudy Nigerian federalism because they know that the internal cleavages – North/South, Muslim/Christian between Nigeria and Sudan, both ex-British colonies, are more closely related than what suffices in any other two African countries. They came to learn from source.

    I am telling you what we saw unfolding as all of these countries moved towards the adoption of federalism and sought applicable templates from abroad.

    It is like Ghana which is trying to grow an oil industry. They have come to learn the pros and many cons which have befallen the extractive industry, cloning what is good and avoiding pitfalls. By the same token, they have been looking at Norway and the Sovereign Wealth Fund for best practices on how to manage oil wealth.

    What is so outlandish about learning something from somewhere that it has been in practice, never mind in Africa?
    I am TELLING you…not imagining stuff

    http://sudanvisiondaily.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=54207

    How come you are denying the obvious? Even your own country, Kenya, which is preparing to adopt a devolved system of government which is in effect – like South Africa have, have borrowed from the said Nigerian experience? As soon as I heard that Kenya are going to have a Senate and that both houses of parliament are going to be called “National Assembly”, it all sounded too familiar.

    Well, Kenya are learning the operations of a bicameral legislature as we speak – from NIGERIA.

    Read

    http://themaceonline.com/management/549-kenyan-parliamentary-staff-under-study-nigerias-national-assembly

    Kai, Africans :). Do we have to overstate the obvious? What do you mean when you say that Beegeagle is “assuming that being the first assumed post-colonial federacy”

    Nigeria became a Federation in 1954, six years ahead of indepence and have remained so till date. The Tanganyika-Zanzibar experiment happened after Tanganyika had attained independence in 1961. Comoros followed much later. What are you on about “assuming/assumed?”.

    Concerning DEVOLUTION and FEDERALISM, central governments devolve power to the provincial or local governments. That does not necessarily make them federal republics. Kenya have devolved power to the counties while Ghana devolved same to the districts.

    The following refers

    DEVOLUTION

    ” Devolution is the statutory granting of powers from the central government of a sovereign state to government at a subnational level, such as a regional, local, or state level. Devolution can be mainly financial, e.g. giving areas a budget which was formerly administered by central government. However, the power to make legislation relevant to the area may also be granted.

    Devolution differs from federalism in that the devolved powers of the
    subnational authority may be temporary and ultimately reside in central government, thus the state remains, de jure unitary. Legislation creating devolved parliaments or assemblies can be repealed or amended by central government in the same way as any statute”

    end of quote

  17. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    @D-e-S…Quote]…”There are several
    dimensions to security, D-E-S…physical
    security(the reason why human societies evolved ab initio),food security, social security etc. Relatedly, there are collaborative regional and economic security initiatives”…[End
    quote]

    We really cannot hide ourselves away
    from facts, or can we!!?…Lets teach
    others the true meaning of Security as
    related to African governance, not US or UK governance….

  18. beegeagle says:

    Pre apartheid South Africa federated
    it’s 9 provinces after attaining her
    independence in 1910. During the
    apartheid era they ‘federated’ further
    to accommodate the make pretend
    tribal homelands the ‘Bantustans’, going as far as granting some
    ‘independence’. Transkei received her
    ‘independence’ at the same time as
    Nigeria and before Kenya…lool
    Sudan federated her provinces into 17
    states in 1956. French Equatorial Africa (1910 – 1960)
    France federated 5 of their colonial
    territories; French Congo, Gabon,
    Obangui-Chari (CAR), Chad and French
    Cameroon.
    French West Africa (1904 – 1958) France federated 8 of their colonial
    territories; Mauritania, Senegal, French
    Sudan (Mali), French Guinea, Cote
    d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast), Upper Volta
    (Burkina Faso) , Dahomey (Benin) and
    Niger. United Libyan Kingdom (1951 – 1963)
    Came into existence upon
    independence on 24 December 1951
    and lasted until a coup d’état led by
    Muammar Gaddafi on 1 September
    1969 overthrew King Idris of Libya and established the Libyan Arab Republic.
    [Excerpt Wikipedia]
    Mali Federation (1959 – 1960) The Mali
    Federation (Fédération du Mali) was a
    country in West Africa. It was formed
    by a union between Senegal and the Sudanese Republic (formerly French
    Sudan). It was founded on April 4,
    1959, within the French Community
    and became entirely self-governing
    when it gained independence from
    France on June 20, 1960. The federation collapsed shortly after
    independence, on 20 August 1960,
    when Senegal withdrew, due to
    political disagreements. The Sudanese
    Republic was renamed the Republic of
    Mali on 22 September 1960. [Excerpt Wikipedia]
    Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland
    (1953 – 1963) The Federation of
    Rhodesia and Nyasaland, also known as
    the Central African Federation (CAF),
    was a semi-independent state in southern Africa that existed from 1953
    to the end of 1963, comprising the
    former self-governing colony of
    Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and the
    British protectorates of Northern
    Rhodesia (Zambia) and Nyasaland (Malawi). It was a federal realm of the
    British Crown — neither a colony nor a
    dominion, although the British
    Sovereign was represented by a
    governor general, as usual for
    dominions. It was intended eventually to become a dominion in the
    Commonwealth of Nations [Excerpt
    Wikipedia]
    Uganda (1962 – 1967)
    As you can clearly deduce
    now….Nigeria did not introduce modern day federacy to Africa.
    Hopefully they too did their due
    diligence in realising the nature and
    viability of their intended federacy.

  19. beegeagle says:

    You obviously are in denial, D-E-S

    Pre-apartheid South African experience – DEAD

    Bantustans – DEAD

    Central African Federation – DEAD

    Rhodesia and Nyasaland – DEAD

    Uganda – 1962 to 1967 – DEAD..started after Nigeria which began 1954

    Post-independence Sudan 1956 – DEAD..started after Nigeria which began 1954

    French Equatorial Africa – DEAD

    French West Africa – DEAD

    Are you yesterday’s man? Do you practice federalism in the history books or learn from current practice? Why did Kenya not go and learn bicameralism from the defunct Bantustans or Rhodesia and Nyasaland if that is of any relevance? They should have locked themselves up in Parliament and read about bicameralism in the Bantustans? Why come to Nigeria if all the DEAD federations are relevant to the practice of devolution or federalism?

    Perhaps you are clutching at straws,bro. How does any of those DEAD, DEAD and DEAD examples contradict the FACT that Nigeria are Africa’s oldest federation which was CLEARLY asserted in my first post on this subject-matter? As is, where on the map of Africa are your Bantustans, Nyasaland, French West Africa, Central African Federation? Of all the countries mentioned, ONLY Sudan are a federal republic today. They have abrogated they have abrogated the practice of federalism – one of the triggers of the Second Civil War in the south was the 1983 abrogation of the practice of federalism and the autonomy of the South as agreed by the regime of Gaafar Nimeiry and it remained so until after the CPA. Even at the earliest practice of same in 1956 did not predate the 1954 start in Nigeria

    So what are you on about?

  20. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    And let’s not forget the Federal
    Republic of Cameroon (1961 – 1972)…
    which as a matter of legitimate
    understanding a continuation of
    governance policy, considering that
    Cameroon only just downloaded and tweaked their understanding of the
    French colonial federacy that they had
    been federated members of, the
    French Equatorial Africa (1910 – 1960)

  21. beegeagle says:

    More DEAD and IRRELEVANT examples

    When South Africa were preparing a post-apartheid constitution, they went to Australia, Canada and Nigeria – not to Nyasaland or Federal Republic of Cameroon. Ethiopia went to Nigeria and India..not to French Equatorial Africa, Sudan looked to Nigeria for its post-CPA federal constitution…not to Bantustans.

    Assuming that the Federal Republic of Cameroon were in existence today, did its 1961 commencement predate the 1954 start in Nigeria?

    SIMPLE precepts laid down in my posts, you have glossed over in your bid to deny the obvious. Well, the Sokoto Empire with its federating emirates wef 1804 was a federated empire..so advanced and modern that the British left it intact and used it as the basis for its Indirect Rule of Northern Nigeria(read about Indirect Rule to be sure), a century later. Why not cite the Sokoto Empire as well or you left it out because it predated the 1910 pre-apatheid example which you cited? We are talking about the contemporary and that which exists and you are taking us down memory lane to list a litany of non-existent museum relics which even your own people are not reading about in libraries?

    My posts which preceded the barrage of irrelevant and NON-EXISTENT examples clearly stated as follows

    – “we are Africa’s oldest federation wef 1954.. ”

    – “Nigeria, which had been practising federalism for all of her post-independence life and for four or five decades longer, was the natural place to turn to for an African application of same”

    ALL of her post-independence life I said(plus six years pre-independence) and here you are showing examples of stuff which was obliterated 40,45 or 50 years ago?

    Is there any contradiction in these two assertions?

  22. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    @Beeg…Quote]…”Perhaps you are
    clutching at straws,bro. How does any
    of those DEAD, DEAD and DEAD
    examples contradict the FACT that
    Nigeria are Africa’s oldest federation
    which was CLEARLY asserted in my first post on this subject-matter?”…[End
    quote]

    I really don’t care how much you try to
    change the history books, but Nigeria
    federated in 1963 and Sudan which still
    remains a federated Republic even after the secession of South Sudan
    federated in 1956….Now that is FACT
    you can deposit in any historical bank!!!

    I understand you won’t accept South
    Africa’s federacy for whatever complexes or short straws you are clutching in their regards….1910, pre-apartheid or post-apartheid, with or without Bantustans, Again stone cold FACT!!!

    What earnestly informs you that
    Nigerian legislature is the only place the Kenyan Secretariat visited to conduct their case-studies?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation

    What are you on about? A bit of fiction
    perhaps?

  23. beegeagle says:

    Are there issues of comprehension deficit at play here, D-E-S? Stop the rigmarole and answer my questions as itemised.

    – Has Ethiopia been a federation non-stop since 1952 as you put it? Between 1974 and 1991 while the Dergue regime lasted, was Ethiopia a federal state? If the Federation was between Ethiopia and Eritrea, did it cease in 1994 or not? Of what relevance is a dissolved federation to this assessment? Does that not sound as disarrayed as saying “Kenyatta was born in 1889. He is the oldest African?”. Hello..he died in 1978? How does that affect any assessment of who the oldest African is today?

    – If you say Nigeria became a Federation in 1963, bro, I feel majorly sorry to tell you that Wikipedia misled you.

    – By the way, the West Cameroon which federated in the defunct Federal Republic of Cameroon left Nigeria in 1961 after a plebiscite as part of the federation of Nigeria.

    Look in that Wikipedia of yours and check for British Cameroons and British Southern Cameroons to ascertain the FACTS of their status in Nigeria where they left from in 1961. So much for Nigeria federalism having started in 1963. Don’t you ascertain the veracity of what you copy and paste? Tis Wikipedia..not the Bible.

    – Your assertion that Nigeria became a federal state in 1963 is as laughable as it is hollow. Nigeria became a FEDERATION in 1954 with the federating units of Northern, Eastern and Western regions.

    The ONLY thing which happened in 1963 was that Nigeria became a REPUBLIC. That means Queen ceased to be our Head of State. That does not preclude the fact that Nigeria became a federation under the Queen in 1954 and a federal republic with a Nigerian President in 1963. Perhaps Australia and Canada which still retain the Queen as Head of State are not practising federalism, then. Are you listening to yourself at all?

    – The reason why I asked about possible comprehension deficit issues is because I said, Nigeria ‘PARTLY OR WHOLLY influenced’. Go and read my opening posts. How does that suggest that Kenya came exclusively to Nigeria? I was not writing in Latin.

    I recall that someone once asked you to leave your agenda at the door. You are simply too eager to push the South African case so you deny the reality that, on the strength of the fact that Nigeria remains the ONLY country which has practised federalism NON-STOP since 1954, that makes her Africa’s oldest federation.

    Complexes? We are not all as wowed by mzungu, bro..if that be the problem. If you were less star-struck or eager to deny, I wonder why you, a Kenyan, are so eager to label them what they have not labelled themselves as?

    – I still do not know what you are saying about Sudan. The September Laws which were pushed through by Hassan Al-Turabi during his time as Nimeiry’s Attorney General in 1983, abrogated the autonomy of the South and imposed Sharia on the whole country. Between 1983 and the 2005 CPA, Sudan was ruled as a unitary state.

    If you were a bit more objective, I am sure that the hyperlink from SUDAN VISION stated clearly that Nigerian federalism started in 1954..and it has not ceased. 1954 in Nigeria and 1956 in Sudan, which came first? Did the autonomous GoSS which came into being after the Addis Treaty of 1972 cease to exist between 1983 and 2005 or not?

  24. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    In reply to D-e-S. I agree with you completely in regards to definitions, and the fact that countries did visit Nigeria to carry out case studies, that is due diligence it’s standard practice in good governance.

    Not copy paste or mimicry…hence; @Beeg…Quote]…”How come you are
    denying the obvious? Even your own
    country, Kenya, which is preparing to
    adopt a devolved system of government
    which is in effect – like South Africa
    have, have borrowed from the said Nigerian experience? As soon as I
    heard that Kenya are going to have a
    Senate and that both houses of
    parliament are going to be called
    “National Assembly”, it all sounded too
    familiar. Well, Kenya are learning the operations of a bicameral legislature
    as we speak – from NIGERIA..”…[End
    quote]

    Is a bare faced misrepresentation of
    facts. If Ethiopia of old federated
    Empire can do its due diligence and study examples of modern governance
    to further their understanding of it in
    relation to where they are, then what
    does that mean to you? How could you possibly make deductions based on common governance terms, like Senate, House of Parliament, National assembly etc.?

    We have Generals, Captains and
    Privates to in the KDF like you do in the
    Nigerian Armed Forces, we also now
    and then send an officer or two to your top military schools, what does that
    inform you?

    @Beeg…Quote]…”Nigeria became a
    Federation in 1954, six years ahead of
    indepence and have remained so till
    date. The Tanganyika-Zanzibar experiment happened after
    Tanganyika had attained independence
    in 1961. Comoros followed much later.
    What are you on about “assuming/
    assumed? ”…[End quote]
    [exerpt Wikipedia]..

    ”The Federation of Ethiopia and Eritrea or Ethiopian–Eritrean Federation[3] was a federation of the Ethiopian Empire and Eritrea. It was created by the approval of the Federal Act in Ethiopia and the Eritrean Constitution on 15 September 1952”….

    Ethiopia has been a traditional
    imperial federation for a very, very long
    time…..Kings ruled various kingdoms
    and yielded their power to the
    Emperor.

  25. beegeagle says:

    It gets more befuddling? Are we talking IS or WAS here?

    Of what relevance is a “has been” to the assessment of which is the oldest federation in Africa today?

    Beegeagle said “Nigeria IS Africa’s oldest federation”. Wiki excerpts posted by D-E-S clearly said

    ”The Federation of Ethiopia and Eritrea or Ethiopian–Eritrean Federation WAS a federation…”

    Is there still a contradiction between ‘was’ and ‘is’ or is the dissolved Ethiopian-Eritrean Federaton the oldest in Africa TODAY? Is it not clear that a “WAS-fixated” D-E-S should not be posting stuff where we are talking “IS”

    You normally hurl a lot of big English..what is so hard to decipher from the foregoing excerpts which YOU posted?

  26. beegeagle says:

    Please, can anyone who’s politically savvy check the following since D-E-S would rather go and and on

    – Having been practising federalism as a federation under the Crown since 1954 and as a federal republic with an indigenous President since 1963,Nigeria, on account of having the longest unbroken spell practising federalism, are Africa’s oldest federation as we speak?

    – does anyone see the relevance of someone trumping up federations which were dissolved in 1960, 1962, 1967 and 1972 in the straightforward business of reckoning which is Africa’s oldest federation? Do deadmen get counted during a census? If so, does a federation which was dissolved in 1960, even if it was formed in 1850 qualify for consideration in an assessment of which is Africa’s oldest federation today? I ask, because I am seeing the names here and on any map of Africa, I do not see Nyasaland, Transkei, French West Africa or Ethio-Eritrean Federation. SO how do they come into an discussion of which is Africa’s oldest federation today?

    – So how do South Africa come into it?

    Assuming that they do, CONTRARY to the pre-apartheid 1910 beeline by D-E-S, the Forum of Federations say;

    quote

    ” More recently, PREVIOUSLY UNITARY COUNTRIES – such as Spain, Belgium and SOUTH AFRICA have adopted federal structures as a way to maintain common central government for some purposes while empowering regional governments for other purposes”

    end of quote

    http://forumfed.org/en/federalism/federalismbycountry.php

    South Africa moved from BEING A UNITARY REPUBLIC to what they are now with the enactment of their current 1996 Constitution. How does that contradict my assertion that having gone federalist in 1954, Nigeria are Africa’s oldest federation?

    – Did Sudan abrogate the autonomy of the South and with that the practice of federalism between 1983 and 2005 or not?

    – My opening posts as they pertain to federalism on this thread CLEARLY stated as follows:

    On December 23rd at 10.41pm, Beegeagle wrote…on this thread

    ” Okay, all of those countries adopted federal or quasi-federal Constitutions these past twenty years”

    Is it in doubt that Ethiopia, South Africa, Sudan, South Sudan and DR Congo all adopted new constitutions during the course of these past 20 years? Does that make it clear that my timeline was the contemporary era?

    So why is D-E-S filling up the board with an irrelevant list of extinct federations such as Rhodesia and Nyasaland, Central African Federation, Ethio-Eritrean Federation, pre-apartheid South Africa, the era of Bantustans,Federal Republic of Cameroon and funny examples from antiquity – political entities and constitutions which have long since ceased to exist? How are they relevant to the process of deciding which is the oldest federation in Africa today or constitutional developments in Africa these past 20 years?

    – Since someone is intent on banging South African heads against Nigerian heads, never mind that a new Constitution came into effect in SA in 1996 and as such the recourse to a befuddling 1910 pre-apartheid order which, if it did not end with the commencement of aparthied in 1948, definitely ceased with the democratic and multiracial constitution of 1996, is neither here nor there?

    – D-E-S, can you finally come clean on your agenda on this blog? Nigeria antagonism and sneak attacks while hiding behind pan-Africanism? Are Nigeria now in Asia?

    http://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2012/11/30/world-exclusive-made-in-nigeria-nns-andoni-p100-a-31-metre-warship-built-by-nigerian-naval-engineers-and-architectsinspiration-henry-a-beegeagles-blogger/

    http://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/brazilian-navy-offshore-patrol-vessel-sails-in-today-to-conduct-joint-maritime-exercise-with-cat-class-logisticspatrol-ship-nns-nwamba-and-a-shaldag-fast-patrol-craft/

  27. beegeagle says:

    I posted a link here from SUDAN VISION so that D-E-S does not reject it as ‘Nigerian content’. He refused to read it, goes to Wiki to confuse himself, claims I am manipulating facts and that Nigeria began practising federalism in 1963 and comes back to accuse me of disseminating falsehood?

    See the SUDAN VISION link above

    excerpts

    ” Nigeria’s experience in operating a
    Federal system of government since 1954. This means that Nigeria has started operating a federal system of government six years before it attained independence in 1960. ”

    How does that fit in with D-E-S assertion that federalism began in 1963 in Nigeria, going ahead to accuse me of peddling falsehood? So he has gone from sneak attacks, to Nigeria antagonism and now, defamation..even in the face of documented history?

    If I asked “where do I go to see federalism in practice in Africa?”, so D-E-S’s answers would be “Transkei but the Bantustan has ceased to exist: Nyasaland and Rhodesia but they no longer exist, French Equatorial Africa but the federation has been dissolved?” Does that sound like coherent thought or speech or D-E-S is going to this bizarre extreme just to deny Nigeria its rightful claim?

    Makes so much sense. Kai, Africans :-)

  28. beegeagle says:

    Someone had the temerity to accuse us of distorting historical facts, namely that Nigeria only adopted federalism in 1963. Such gibberish as facts. D-E-S, stop exhibiting your anti-Nigerianism on an altar through blatant revisionism

    READ..don’t just whine or post irrelevant details about dissolved federations. “Nigeria ARE Africa’s oldest federation” is what I said. Post “ARE-related” excerpts, NOT “Ethiopian-Eritrean federation WAS..” Surely you know the difference between the existent and the vanquished but in your eagerness to rewrite Nigerian history, you insist on posting non-existent stuff.

    – Did we say “Nigeria are Africa’s oldest federation wef 1954″ OR DID WE SAY “Nigeria were the first-ever federation in Africa?”. You do not know the difference between both assertions or you are too consumed by anti-Nigerian fervour to know the difference?

    – The Forum of Federations, the most authoritative source on the matter, say SOUTH AFRICA, which you are trying to suggest is Africa’s oldest federation without saying so, much “RECENTLY moved from being a UNITARY REPUBLIC”. That is the same SA which you would use to rob Nigeria of her earned perch.

    So federalism started in Nigeria in 1963, you said? What a pathetic joke. The extent to which you would go..anyway, just read

    QUOTE

    ” Between 1951 and 1954, two important constitutional conferences were held in London and Lagos between Nigerian political leaders and the British government. These resulted in a NEW 1954 FEDERAL CONSTITUTION whose main features were: the separation of Lagos, the nation’s capital, from the Western Region; the establishment of a Federal Government for Nigeria comprising three regions, namely, North, West and East with a Governor- General at the centre and three Regional Governors; the introduction of an exclusive Federal Legislative List as well as a Concurrent List of responsibilities for both the Federal and Regional Governments, thus resulting in a strong central government and weak regions; regionalisation of the Judiciary and of the public service through the establishment of Regional Public Service Commissions, in addition to the Federal one.”

    http://onlinenigeria.com/history/?blurb=631

    And you have the effrontery, rather than open up your mind, to accuse me of distorting history whereas YOU, who claimed that Nigeria adopted federalism in 1963, are the one who blatantly distorted facts, waking up the ghosts of dead federations and ‘delaying’ the start date of federalism in Nigeria, just to deny Nigeria a place in the sun – using everyone and everything from Tanganyika(1961), Cameroon(1961), Uganda(1962) as chinks and going further to LIE when you FRIVOLOUSLY and with a clear intention to mislead, posited that Nigeria went federalist in 1963.

    When it suits you, you remember that “Ethiopia have been a traditional imperial federation for a very, very long time”. So when you talked about your pre-apartheid 1910 federalism, WHY did you not state that traditional federal structures between the Khalifate-Emirates of Northern Nigeria formed the basis of the Indirect Rule system which commenced from the time in January 1900 when the Protectorate of Northern Nigeria came into being?

    Sustain your habit of always launching sneak attacks on Nigeria, prescribing options which can limit her military advancement while waxing lyrical and forcing unsolicited details down our guts, including posting promotional videos of the KDF in Nigerian military threads, when you do your PsyOps pursuant to your own country’s interests.

    You have almost overstayed your welcome anyway.

    RECAP

    NIGERIAN FEDERALISM circa 1954
    LYTTLETON CONSTITUTION

    http://nigerianwiki.com/wiki/Lyttelton_Constitution

  29. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S | In reply to beegeagle. #8 25/12/12 @1037
    @D-e-S…Quote]…”You are assuming by
    been the first assumed post-colonial
    sovereign entity to assume
    federacy….the rest copied you. You are
    about to start a long winding legal argument that you’ve pre-empted with
    the Sudan. But again if you want to
    start an argument let’s start with the
    definition of political federalism and
    devolution”…[End quote]
    I could see you coming from a mile, you are thrumming now in order to gunner
    credence for the little you are saying.
    First you jumble my responses to try
    and throw us of the trail and make me
    sound inane, then you start trying to
    direct some Nigerian anti-sentiments towards me, by suggesting that I have
    a thing against my said brethren, for
    daring to differ with you in opinion….
    You dismiss South Africa, why because
    of their failed Apartheid policies? Or
    simply because you don’t recognise the Mzungu (White) governments circa
    1910? But I am sorry, I am politically
    mature to understand the value of
    reconciliation and constitutional
    mandates, white South Africa is part of
    my Africa which is choke-a-bloc full of genocides, pogroms and all attendant
    nasty histories. Hope someday you’ll
    move on to…
    By the way South Africa did not attain
    independence in 1996, they gained
    ‘majority rule’ by legal definition…. You talk a lot about constitution this
    and that in your argument, which is
    absolutely correct and spot on and
    forms the basis of legitimacy to our
    legal argument. This is irrefutable and
    is the required criteria to make or change history…
    @Beeg…Quote]…”Between 1951 and
    1954, two important constitutional
    conferences were held in London and
    Lagos between Nigerian political
    leaders and the British government. These resulted in a NEW 1954 FEDERAL
    CONSTITUTION whose main features
    were: the separation of Lagos, the
    nation’s capital, from the Western
    Region; the establishment of a Federal
    Government for Nigeria comprising three regions, namely, North, West and
    East with a Governor- General at the
    centre and three Regional Governors;
    the introduction of an exclusive Federal
    Legislative List as well as a Concurrent
    List of responsibilities for both the Federal and Regional Governments,
    thus resulting in a strong central
    government and weak regions;
    regionalisation of the Judiciary and of
    the public service through the
    establishment of Regional Public Service Commissions, in addition to the
    Federal one”…[End quote]
    The Tanzanians, Cameroonians,
    Ugandans, and any other Africans that
    wanted self-rule, just didn’t wake up
    on day and find themselves Independent, we all went to London or
    so to formulate ‘Road Maps’ to this
    effect….let’s get you back into
    historical facts brother!!!
    Nigeria was a legitimate Crown Colony
    of the British from 1914 – 1960. Between 1954 – 1960 Nigeria was
    governed under the Lyttelton
    Constitution which was a ‘Road Map’ to
    self-determination (Independence)…
    Anything that happened up until then
    by your argument should be as DEAD as the rest, wouldn’t you agree? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    Constitution_of_Nigeria In regards to Sudan, as much as most
    history analysts and books will suggest
    still remains a federated state as far as
    their constitution and governance
    structures state. The only thing that
    deviates from this clarity is their current authoritarian government….
    Anyway…….MERRY XMAS to you my
    Nigerian Brothers, GOD Bless y’all in this
    time of PEACE & JOY to mankind the
    world over…..

  30. beegeagle says:

    Dude, put some class in your game and get off the board. Save some FACE and stop distorting history to suit egomanic and quirky designs. Stop limiting others, just so that they fit into your pigeon hole.

    READ

    ” Nigeria’s experience in operating a
    Federal system of government since 1954. This means that Nigeria has started operating a federal system of government six years before it attained independence in 1960.”

    http://sudanvisiondaily.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=54207

    What was ambiguous about that? So much for 1954-60 being a roadmap, says who..YOU? The likes of you would determine that! I beg..it is beyond your Wiki-bound archives.

    So you are confronted with the fact again and it becomes a roadmap. That Constitution was operated by Nigerian federal and regional pariamentarians. It started off with regional party leaders acting as LEADERS OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS and with the attainment of FULL internal self-government wef 1957, the leaders of government business in the North, East and West became PREMIERS…Ahmadu Bello(North), Nnamdi Azikiwe(East) and Obafemi Awolowo(West). This was followed by the attainment of self-governing status at the federal level in 1959 under Tafawa Balewa as PRIME MINISTER and he led the nation into independence in 1960.

    It is an utter lack of grace which makes people lurch from pillar to post in ALARMING revisionism. So the 1954 FEDERAL CONSTITUTION OF NIGERIA was a roadmap – just so that you do not have to say “I was wrong”. Too bad. Well, what about your mythical 1963 start to federalism in Nigeria..you have now jettisoned that and are angling to put the start date at 1960? I understand, that would make it closer to Uganda(1962), Tanganyika(1961) and Cameroon(1961).

    You have now unilaterally decided that FEDERALISM can only take off on a nation’s independence day, so that you can queue up Nigeria which gained independence in 1960 behind a Sudan which became independent in 1956? You have conveniently forgotten that federalism did not exist in Sudan between the time of the enactment of the September Laws in 1983 and the CPA in 2005?

    Well, let me remind you.

    QUOTE

    “The seeds that germinated in 2005
    Comprehensive Peace Agreement,
    popularly called the CPA between the Government of the Sudan and the Sudan
    Peoples Liberation Movement (SPLM)
    were sown in those talks (called Abuja I
    and Abuja II) hosted by Nigeria.

    Indeed, the vexed issues of regional autonomy and the adoption of a quasi-federal structure of government, which
    recognised the religious and cultural
    diversities of the country, were issues
    that the Nigerian mediation efforts
    sought to implant in the warring factions and the negotiating teams during the many years of Peace Talks.

    It is a source of pride to Nigeria and Nigerians that these principles have been accepted and formed the key components that led to the CPA”

    END

    http://sudanvisiondaily.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=54207

    The foregoing makes clear that Nigeria impressed upon Sudan the need for regionalism and a quasi-federal setup. That shows that the practice of federalism which abrogated in 1983 was still not being practised at the time of the CPA talks. It was later incorporated into the CPA of 2005. It proves conclusively what I said to the effect that between the time of the abrogation of the autonomy of South Sudan in 1983 and the 2005 CPA, Sudan was not practising federalism. It is intellectually dishonest for you to feign amnesia on that one.

    Nowhere did I tell you that South Africa gained independence in 1996 – multiracial constitution I said and that was after the democratic, non-racial polls of 1994. Attention or comprehension deficit?

    The difference between Nigeria and your Central African Federation or French West Africa is that, whereas those were conclusively dead and buried as long ago as the early 1960s, Nigeria has practised federalism continuously since 1954 and that is where we are still at. Stop mixing apples and oranges

    Nigeria adopted federalism in 1954…not 1960, not 1963. Deal with it, ole boy.

  31. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    #9 25/12/12 @1234
    @Beeg…Quote]…”When it suits you, you
    remember that “Ethiopia have been a
    traditional imperial federation for a very, very long time”. So when you talked about your pre-apartheid 1910 federalism, WHY did you not state that traditional federal structures between the Khalifate-Emirates of Northern Nigeria formed the basis of the Indirect Rule system which commenced from the time in January 1900 when the Protectorate of Northern Nigeria came into being?”…[End quote]

    With all due respect Beeg, all you are
    trying to do is discredit me rather than
    refute my summations. In regards to the
    above, I could have as easily have
    digressed to examples of Kingdoms and states of old Africa such as I also
    historically acknowledge above and
    others like the Omani Sultanate of the
    East Coast of Africa and other Swahili
    Nations, The Buganda Kingdom and it’s
    various nation states…but I had to draw a line to one understanding
    As opposed to all of these Kingdoms,
    Sultanates and Caliphates only the
    Ethiopian Empire was ever represented as
    Sovereign entity within the League of
    Nations and its predecessor the UN. That is a historical-legal certainty; can we say
    the same of the others?
    I have no stomach for starting another
    discussion front though….although since
    you brought about the 1954-1960
    Lyttelton Constitution and asked me whether I understood about the French/
    English Cameroon…Yes I do know that
    Cameroon was a League of Nation
    protectorate mandated to France and
    England and as such had to granted
    independence as one unitary sovereign state…hence the ‘Road Map’. But as of
    today we are still arguing….Bakassi!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    File:League_of_Nations_Anachronous_Map.PNG @Beeg…Quote]…”You have almost
    overstayed your welcome anyway ”…[End quote]

    Tehehe…That is just cold, antisocial and
    un-brotherly, but admittedly your
    prerogative. But either way you can’t do away with History and FACTS to brother!!

  32. beegeagle says:

    Nobody but yourself is trying to discredit you when you continue to mouth off about start dates to Nigerian federalism which your ridiculous 1963 inference makes abundantly clear that you know very little or nothing about.

    Who are you to determine that federalism starts from the date of a nation’s independence? Are we discussing sovereignty or a political system – federalism? What has independence got to do with it if you are not merely manipulating history? If federalism starts at independence, why were you mouthing off about French West Africa, Central African Federation etc? Were any of those independent entities? Even after I told you that they cannot be taken into reckoning because we are looking at existing federations and not vanquished ones? Did I say anywhere that they were inadmissible because they were not independent entities?

    The assertion which I made was “we ARE Africa’s oldest federation wef 1954″ Did I say that “we were the first country in Africa ever to practice federalism?” So why are you throwing up all these irrelevant details about French West Africa, French Equatorial Africa, Central African Federation and Rhodesia? HOW do those affect the assessment of which country has had the longest continuous record of practising federalism TO THIS DAY? Have Tanganyika, Comoros, Ethiopia, Sudan, South Africa and DR Congo been practising federalism non-stop since 1954 like Nigeria have..before you attempt further limitation by unilaterally adding and slicing off epochs to suit your own whims?

    Since you love Wikipedia so much, why do you gloss over the things which run contrary to the myths which you seek to foist on us? Of all the intelligent people on this board, it would be YOU to tell me when Nigeria began to practice federalism..even when you have goofed by telling me that Nigeria began to practice federalism in 1963?

    If you had looked carefully at your WIKI, you would have discovered that Dr EML Endeley was elected Prime Minister(Premier) of autonomous region of British Southern Cameroons in 1957 at a time when the territory was administered as part of Nigeria and well ahead of the 1961 Plebiscite which led to the reunification of French Cameroun and British Cameroon. That was the start of the internal self-government of the regions under the Federation of Nigeria as constituted by the 1954 Federal Constitution which you have spent so much time denying its effect and real impact.

    http://m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.M.L._Endeley

  33. beegeagle says:

    D-E-S says

    Submitted on 2012/12/25 at 11:58 pm | In reply to beegeagle. #10 25/12/12 @2353

    http://nigerianwiki.com/wiki/Lyttelton_Constitution

    Was Her Majesty’s Constitution and
    powers and inferences of it as Law,
    was vested and deferred to her and at her discretion….This my friend was a Crown Constitution to facilitate the smooth transition of power and demarcation (Cameroon)….not
    Nigeria’s as a Republic, that is legal
    fact….

    There was was NEVER a dangerous overlap of constitutions, not especially between Her Majesty’s Crown mandate and a Nigerian Republic Constitution in whatever form, unitary or federated……FACT!!!

  34. beegeagle says:

    Dude, your verbose but illogical offering bear you out as one who does not know when to quit frothing and move away. The litany of somersaults and inconsistencies which you spew beggars belief. Knowing you, all of the concocted “limitations” are geared towards squeezing out an undeserved place in the history books for East Africa. Same desperate way you were dribbling about Somalia having shaped American CTCOIN operational policies in Iraq and Afghanistan before you got halted in your tracks.

    * The sheer incredulity of your seeming lack of capacity to digest and interprete a simple sentence written in English..preferring instead to subject same to Goebbelsian manipulation ad nauseum, suggests that ordinarily you have to be a liar. I am sorry but it is impossible to conclude any differently or to humour you with undeserved platitudes.

    WHAT, FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, is so difficult to understand about the following and WHO ARE YOU to impute ANY of your insincere interpretations into something so clearcut?

    Quote

    “The Lyttelton Constitution of 1954 declared Nigeria a federation consisting of three regions, the federal territories of Lagos and the Southern Cameroons”

    end of quote

    http://nigerianwiki.com/wiki/Lyttelton_Constitution

    What is the next line of spin in that for you – Nigeria were a federation in 1954 but they were not practising federalism?

    You are a professor – so was the chap who wrote for SUDAN VISION above! He said affirmed the foregoing. All of this shameful rigmarole just to claim undeserved plaudits? Do you feel so ball-crushed about being an East African or is there a gangland East Coast-West Coast rhythm playing out in your head?

    * Nigeria Federalism commenced in 1963, you yapped ignorantly. You still have not found the grace in you to say “I spewed gibberish”. It shows that your incoherent argumentation stems from an emasculated ego rather than any attempt to learn or to pass on information – not like your WIKI regurgitate does not indicate intellectual indolence.

    * The contention was – did British Cameroons leave Nigeria practising federalism? Scroll back up. The answer – yes, they did. That also means that Nigeria, with which they had been in association, were practising federalism. Indeed, by 1957, Dr Endeley was already Premier of British Southern Cameroons. Who asked you if it was Her Majesty’s Law or Crown Constitution? Is there anyone who does not know that between 1954 and 1960, Nigeria were a British protectorate?

    * If the Lyttleton Constitution was Her Majesty’s Law and does not count, WHY did you list early practitioners of federalism to include the Central African Federation, Rhodesia and Nyasaland and French Equatorial Africa? Were ANY of those colonial era federations independent entities? Your consistent somersaults make it impossible for you to sound coherent.

    * If, as you put it, the fact of being Her Majesty’s Law implies that federalism is not being practised in a given territory, then in Australia and Canada where the Queen is the Sovereign (reason why they still have “Her Majesty’s Australian Ship “HMAS” and “Royal Canadian Mounted Police”), it follows by your peculiar definition, that Canada and Australia are not practising federalism as we speak – not until they severe ties to the British Crown.

    * If your academic distinction between a pre-independence/pre-republican Federation of Nigeria and a Federal Republic of Nigeria is to pass muster, what goes on under today’s Australian and Canadian Federations with ties to the British crown and subject to Her Majesty’s Law as you put it AND in the absence of a Federal Republic of Australia or Federal Republic of Canada, similarly cannot be described as federalism.
    Yes – ties to the Crown are involved..ala your unique ouster clause to the ante date of Nigerian federalism.

    That is how pathetic your latest spin sounds. Bellowing “FACT” at the end of gaffe suggests an advanced state of inebriation.

    If colonial enactments do not count, how come the ICJ awarded the Bakassi Peninsula to Cameroon on the strength of a 1913 Anglo-German Treaty, 42 years after NIgeria gained independence? Answer – because it was entered into in our name, it is our heritage, our law and our history, without recourse to colonial era or post-colonial categorisation.

    By the same token, your failed attempt at attempting to compartmentalise the practice of Nigerian federalism into colonial era and post-independence epochs, all with a view to rewriting history to suit your own sinister intentions, similarly falls flat on its face.

    Your antics and gameplan on here have been have been too well-advertised. Rather than any pan-Africanist hoopla, you are here to advertise KDF, East Africa,to attempt to limit the aspirations of Nigeria and to launch sneak attacks on her. That is why you are the interloping contrarian on every thread where people espouse hardware acquisition for Nigeria. It must not be bought if your country do not own such or cannot afford to acquire same.

    That is why you gnash your teeth when Nigeria celebrate a home-made drone, warship or APC. Yet you never cease to hide behind Pan-Africanist rhetoric to justify your presence here and seeming interest in matters which do not amount to any of your business – such as whether or not to acquire submarines. Why are you so poor in spirit?

    Listen, save your breath. Kenya’s US$33bn GDP equates to that of Lagos State of Nigeria. I doubt that we are looking up to her – since “the tail does not wag the dog”. Nobody here considers Kenya to be a threat to Nigerian aspirations.

    That is why we have celebrated AMISOM in Somalia more than anyone in East Africe will EVER have the largeness of heart to concede to Nigeria. That shows that we do not feel threatened in any way.Whatever we are not doing right today, if our very lives depend on it, we shall get it right. So quit all the desperate tactics – uncut sanctimony, wannabe role modelling, ‘learn from us..take notice of us’, ‘brother with a dagger to my spine’ tactics and BE YOURSELF.

    That is why you have become the unwitting court jester here with everyone giving you a mile’s berth. Why YOU? After so long, you still cannot engage because your agenda reeks like a perfume all around you and with the exception of a few, perhaps Peccavi and Jimmy, you do not even elicit a response.

    Yet we are no xenophobes here. Eeben Barlow was here and he held court. People respond to Max Montero, Rufus Rastus, Jake, SBM et al because they are at ease. They do not attempt break your fingers while pretending to want to help you snap them. When there is cheery news, they are here to celebrate.

    You are only on threads where Nigeria is in a spot of bother to lend some ‘Kenyan expertise’ in a fit of true Napoleonic complex or to run down an attempt at making a headway – is that the only way to catch up?

    Nigeria are not static so if you think that you are about to catch up with a country the demographic size of East Africa and an economy that is three times as large in your lifetime, “KENYANA” or not, you had better wake up. Do not be deceived by all the wars and rumours of wars around us. Nigeria are tipped by all to become the largest economy in Africa within a few years. So find where else to take your competitive spirit and negative rivalry. Even with all our corruption and malaise, Nigeria are a NEXT ELEVEN economy. All of East Africa in combination are not nearly on that list. Know your real peers so that you can sleep and breath easy.

    Coincidentally, Kenya are unravelling like never before, so you might as well take your pontification and sanctimony home – Tana River, Baragoi (never before heard about 46 cops killed in one chop to be sure), Baragoi again this week, the separatist Mombasa Republican Council et al.

    Ever since the KDF-SNA alliance entered Kismayu, terror attacks have spiked in Garissa and Nairobi, attaining a crescendo which has never before been seen and in this Q4 2012, has exceeded all the attacks which precipiated the Somalia expedition and subsequent attacks until September 2012.

    Rather than window dressing, you might realise that you have a lot to chew on and that you are increasingly looking like that Nigeria which you want to ‘educate’. So climb down from the Kismayo high and fashion out outcomes for an expanding threat whose magnitude no Kenyan yet appears to appreciate. For we too have seized larger cities far away from home – Monrovia, Freetown and smaller ones such as Buchanan, Bo etc and have moved on to face emerging challenges.

    There is so much negativity, intrigue and subterfuge to all that you do and you alone appear not to realise that. You are almost as manipulative as a sister. Stop trying to slow down anybody’s roll. Haters are no brothers. You have fully shown your hand for all to see.

    If your entire being were not centred around your fragile ego, image obsession and delusions of grandeur, the silly sequence which your incoherent argumentation and wilfull manipulation of clearcut and laid down antecedents should have ended at this point:

    Quote

    “The Lyttelton Constitution of 1954 declared Nigeria a federation consisting of three regions, the federal territories of Lagos and the Southern Cameroons”

    end of quote

    http://nigerianwiki.com/wiki/

    Lyttelton_Constitution

    Goodluck with devolution

    http://reuters.com/article/2012/12/21/kenya-economy-decentralisation-idUSL5E8NI3S420121221

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