IHS JANE’S DEFENCE INDUSTRY
19 March, 2014
Jon Grevatt, Bangkok
excerpts
Following meetings between Pakistan and Nigerian defence officials on 17 March, a statement outlined opportunities to increase defence trade and joint production programmes.
Nigeria is a known target customer for the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 Thunder aircraft, jointly developed by Pakistan and China. It has also previously expressed interest in acquiring Al-Zarrar main battle tanks produced by Heavy Industries Taxila, Kaan 33 fast attack craft constructed by Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works, and a range of firearms.
http://www.janes.com/article/35705/pakistan-seeks-greater-military-exports-to-bahrain-and-nigeria
Beegeagle's Blog 
Nothing concrete. Just more speculation and another newspaper report. Until we see concrete developments on the table…….. We have been on this path many times before.
Nigerian NAF pilots currently undergoing MI-35 helicopter trainings in Russia. CONFIRMED.
WOOHOOOO!!!!!
Old story. We need jets.
we never still sabi fly does bad birds,me i dey expect mil 28 or ka52
One positive about Nigeria is that we do our acquisitions in a clever, sustainable and capability enhancing way. Contrast this with countries in the middle east who acquire large numbers of sophisticated platforms that are sometimes far above their maturity level and waste $$$$s in capital and operational costs. Saudi Arabian pilots could not use top of the line American and European jets against Yemeni rebels recently for example to the ridicule of their air force in western capitals.
If we buy jnto the JF17 programme gradually, get some share of the work locally, do some assembly and systems integration work then we develop in house capability and also deepen our technical relationship with PAC to the benefit of both countries.
we dont want al zarra tanks abeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaH1KbNXFNs watch the tank in action. it doesn’t compare favourably with other tanks
It looks light skinned and he go dey chop fuel.
JF-17 looks good for its price, reportedly somewhere around $30-35m apiece. Al Zarra looks T-55 crap, staycaway from it. At this point in time Nigeria should look at something considerably more modern tank than what it currently has, like Russia’s T-90s. Did Chna offer the J-10 to NAF?
The JF-17 was offered to our country before but because of the Chinese ties on the aircraft, well….plus the fact that we need LIFTs, we went for FA-50 instead. Contract signing on Friday.
Max
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvtGBEGk80s jf17 looks good
Good power to weight ratio, good manoeuvrability, open source architecture, weak landing gear, single engine had better be very reliable.
We have enough Helicopter Gunships, we need new airframes. Its ridiculous we have a Chinese copy of the Mig 21 as our frontline fighter.
Oga Are James, respects.
Na Open Archi sweet my belle pass. This platform has not been tested in battle, what of the wing to weight ratio at full loading? what about the weak landing gear? how reliable is this ‘single’ engine? Can we replace the engine with Russian made ones? Are the airforces of Pakistan and China fielding this platform en-masse?
In as much as I am happy/hopeful that our Airforce is actually making moves to become an Airforce, I want us to thread softly and not jubilate yet as a lot of ‘powerful people’ read and actually make decisions based on what we say here.. Let us remember how the F7 were dropping like Baygon-sprayed mosquitoes.
Are we just being grateful for small mercies? Nothing bad is being grateful, but I just wouldn’t want our flyboys getting killed in non-combat situations.
Some of the problems are solved in Block 2. Although the smoky RD33 (Russian) engine remains on this model it is not a serious problem. New radar, BVR capability, data link (potentially can ‘talk’ to NIGCOMSAT). Ultimately there will be reliability issues but this will be compensated by ease of maintenance of the aircraft and the inter-changeabilities permitted by the deign.
With JF17 Block 2 we get capability at cheap price and if we collaborate with PAC on the program we get a seat at the table in the aerospace world.
Oga spirit,It does not have to be our front-line fighter. secondly,it is an upgrade on our F-7’s.Thirdly, if we get local production then we don’t have to re-invent the wheel, we have access to air-platform development at very little cost, the link states and i quote;
“The government also noted its ability to offer “good offset programmes” to its defence export customers”; and also, “…opportunities to increase defence trade and ‘joint production’ programmes.”
Production of the JF-17 would be a coup. We can branch off to our own platforms at a later date but we have to start from somewhere. Having JF-17 wont stop of from getting an entrance 6.Nos su27s or su30s. Its not as though production of JF-17s would start tomorrow.
As for thoes t55s of a different name, they are probably talking of upgrade of our t55 tanks, we don’t need that. Lets’ modify the t55s as mobile air-defence units,mobile radar systems, armoured bridges, mine/ I.D.E sweepers .e.t.c and get new MBTs.
Why is NAF still training MI-35 helicopter pilots in Russia ?
We have been operating the type since 2000.
And indigenous pilot training has already happened in Enugu.
The Pakistani bought about 1000 T-59 and T-69 tanks from china which were horrible and as good as useless.
The Pakistanis essentially upgraded the whole tank to arrive at the Al Zarra.
Now they want to Pawn them off on Nigeria.
I mean can’t we just buy the T-90 tank like Uganda ?
God forbid our politicians spend some worthwhile cash to make Nigeria great.
Nooo, they will short change Nigeria on defense, and reserve the lions share for the Lootocrats.
While NAF ponders the purchase of the JF-17, 2 jets every 6 yrs, let’s be mindful that neighboring Angola now has 25 SU-27/30s and counting.
That country (Angola) actually took adversarial position to Nigeria during the Gbagbo/Ouattara crisis. And why not? Wetin we fit do na? They knew they had few ace cards we don’t have. Bigmanism is a vice that feeds on its own feaces.
*faeces*
Yeah man, one day, some small African country would teach us a very embarrassing and expensive lesson.
That you don’t take your nations security lightly or for granted.
Gbam!!
The mi35m, which we ordered for 6, is slightly different from the one we operate,these have MFDs, ATGMs Night vision Equipment( hence our pilots have to qualify for Night flight and combat)OPS-24N surveillance-and-sighting station GPS navigation and also laser range finders. Most of these, if not all, are not on the Mi24s.
It the MI35M is so good, why are we buying only six. Just looking at the specs you reeled off here, the pilot work load should be much lower for even more lethal killing capacity using this chopper. Why do we scrimp on funds for defence in the same country where the number of private executive jets surpass most countries in Europe.
Nah wah I cry for my people sometimes no be small. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network
In upgrading your old T-55s, take a look at what Vietnam did using Israeli tech. I think its better than the Al Zarra upgrade. (Sorry no link for now but my site discussed it before in 1 old blog entry).
Max
Technology and blueprints transfer for JF17 & maybe local shipbuilding of Kaan 33- Yes to that. Al Zarrar tank; ‘No’. Al Khalid tank would have been a more suitable offer IMO. Anyway, I’m still hopeful of our own local tank design ala Proforce.
al zarrar is jst an upgraded T-54/55 so we can get dem to also upgrade our’s
T55/59/Al Zarrar would have a considerable disadvantage against modern tanks and ATGMs. Unless we are looking to shore up medium tank numbers. Our main priority should be the ‘heavies’.
Many good deals out there, Netherlands sold 100 leopards for €200 million to Finland e.g.
When Nigeria had 32 MIG21s and 11 Jags backed by 16 Rolland SAM batteries, it would have been stuiped to try attempt an attack on this country. Also backed by 24 A jets, a battery of land based excorts and a few missle boats our freedom was secure from outside agression. Today, let’s see what wud happen if 3 sqaudrones of SU27s sud enter our airspace. What wud d national assembely say, what wud ASO rock do
Our procument officers at MoD,DHQs and DICON should not include talk of buying any tank from Pakistan,take the JF-17 Thunder fighter jets and the Fast Attack Craft boats only.
The JF-17 underwing load is not good enough with just 2 hardpoints instead of 3,and wingtip as well.Please cyber generals,you should checkout the wing- load of the Yak-130 jet trainer and compare it with the JF-17,you would then understand what i mean.
I prefer we go for the Chinese Type 99G MBT and the PLZ05/52-54 Calibre(155mm) SP-Howitzer,if the Chinese would agree to Tech Transfer.
One more thing,the JH-17 should be our main air dominance fighter jet,but it should served as a capability stop-gap before the acquisition of either the SU-30MKI variant that has both canard and thrust vector controls and the Super flanker SU-35BM with its powerful Irbis-E PESA radar that has a range of 240miles/400km.It means an SU-35BM taking off from Tactical Air Command,Makurdi can immediately track and shoot-down adversary over Zaria and Kaduna respectively.
FIRST-LOOK,FIRST-SHOOT and FIRST-KILL!!! That is the way to go.
Don’t buy canard and thrust vector model in this first batch.
So many issues without thrust vctoring and it is not needed for now, we are not going to be dogfighting with Eurofighter or trying to out-manoeuvre top of the line SAM’s yet.
The Soviets are still messing up the Indians on the Maintenance contract for the SU 30MKI, some ridiculous figure of about less than 50% availability on those jets and all due to the 5th generation upgrades.
Thank God we would be dealing with smaller and more effective Belarussian entities.
*with*
Sorry i meant the JF-17 should not be our main air dominance fighter jet.
Nigeria honestly does not need to buy any tanks from Pakistan .
The last two recorded time Nigeria bought tanks was probably the T55 during the last years of the SHAGARI regime and Shortly after when IBB made nice with the iron lady and WE got the VICKER Tanks.
We have been down this road before and I will not be dramatic about this issue. We have to move on . This in my honest opinion is the way for First the stop gap measure we buy from the source itself no beating about the bush about it upgraded T90s If the Russians sold it to UGANDA They will sell it to us. we should by 100 of these with spare parts and the critical aspect under some form of partnership and maintenance agreement. This should also be mandated that this is the last set of tanks that Nigeria will buy.
The Long term and permanent measure is that just like two indigenous companies are already doing ( proforce and innoson) for once and for all Nigeria needs to manufacture their own Tank . If we can manufacture an APC we can and should manufacture our own TANK.
On the question of tanks- as far back as the civil war (1967-1970) amoured vehicles were being ‘manufactured’ by the Biafrans. We have always had the incountry capacity to build tanks/amoured vehicles locally if we sent our minds to it.
Moving into the 21st century, we currently have a project development institute (PRODA) in Enugu, a specialised amoured vehicle plant in Bauchi and indegenous companies that could ‘manufacture’ tanks/amoured vehicles- in the form of PROFORCE AND INNOSSON. Why then should we be looking to purchase Tanks from abroad? – oh yes we don’t have a functional Iron and steel industry that produces flat weapons grade steel- as Ajaokuta steel plant is moribound despite the billions of dollars sunk into it.
Okay so in the interim we could import some tanks- but why not go for good quality tanks like the surplus Leopard 2 Tank that the Germans have in large numbers and were trying to sell to Malaysia (or is it Indonesia) recently? Or the T-90 from Russia or the upgraded T-72 from Ukraine (scratch that- they may need all their tanks to face Russia in the current crises)- what of the Chinese 99G MBT? There are so many options as far as tanks are concerned.
Going back to defence co-operation with Pakistan- what about purchasing SUBMARINES from them?- lets not forget that Pakistan builds the IAP equipped Augosta sub (under licence from France) and we have in the past sent naval officers to Pakistan for submarine training.
It was Indonesia which got the used German Leopard tanks after the colonial pater noster Holland, who are just as sanctimonious as our British partners are wont to be, acted more Catholic than the Pope and “detected that the tanks could be used against Indonesian citizens”. No thanks to the exertion of activists.
The Italians and Germans tend not to be so encumbered by mushy concerns when they transact arms business. Remember that even when General Suharto led Indonesia, Germany similarly sold them an instant navy when they transferred 39 ex-East German Navy ships. Suharto’s govt had all manner of allegations ranging from extrajudicial killings torture and other abuses levelled against it. The steadfast Germans were unperturbed.
WORLD’S TOP TEN FIGHTERS – XINHUA
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2013-11/13/c_132883273.htm
A lot of people make this mistake, but the truth is the latest upgrade of the F15 Eagle beats Eurofighter hands down.
Hey Guys let’s nt Jump into Conclusions here,
From the Article it says Nigeria had PREVIOUSLY shown Interest meaning that Deal is no longer on da Table, It also Showed Previous Interest in da K-33
For now our Major interest is da JF-17 Thunder Block 2 and since this Is a Recent Meeting I’m sure a lot of things were Considered, the Airforce recently Collaborated wit 14 Universities to Design Made in Nigeria Jets so dis JF-17 Programme may help in Acheiving that.
I don’t tink we are getting the Tanks or Fast Craft because the Army won’t Want them as I’m sure NAEME plan to make their Tanks, the Igirigi is giving them a Good Spotlight lately plus Navy has already expressed it Will no longer Buy 30m Craft as it can Make such The Andoni and its Sister are proof.
So We should Ask what Numbers of Jf-17 is sufficient as Stop gap measure before we get a More Advanced Jet like the Sukhoi 35M
As for Submarines that should also be considered
I saw the NAF AIR EXPO 2014 advert on NTA NetWork News yesterday with a lot of innovative and self-reliant promises.It is likely that the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet would be featured with the NAF colours and roundel in th Expo.
Nah lie o! Make you post link o make you no make my b.p. go up o! T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network
Oga gbash10, you know that NAF and PAF use the same green and white roundel.
Just N49 billion for a squadron of JF17 and we are also being offered the option of paying ‘small small’. Another 75billiom probably and we get our engineers working on the production programs at dedicated local facilities probably get to make the plane’s wings, assemble parts of the fuselages, assemble avionics and radar, work with composite material technology, man test benches for the engines et.c
If we don’t take this offer I am going to knock my head against something, ..something really hard.
Oga Are james take am easy o.
We need your complete faculties on board. (LOL)
http://www.nairaland.com/search/jf%2017%20thunder/0/1
The only fathomable reason why the NA are looking at the Al Zarrar is probably because we own T55s. Those were first inducted in 1978, two years after 3 Armoured Div was formed. T55s should go into our reserves now.
I have heard about 1.6 million Euro Leopard 2A4 tanks available from German surplus stocks. We can acquire 50 units of those and add upgraded T72 tank with ERA Kontakt armour and improved fire controls for $700,000 apiece. we should get 100 units. Thereafter, we can seek govt to govt credit from Russia to fund the acquisition of 100 T90 tanks. That way, we stay contemporary until 2030.
I see no reason why we are continually trying to cut corners. What business does Nigeria which is seeking Permanent Membership of the UNSC have around the Al Zarrar tank in the new millennium? Even the Pakistanis use a variant of the MBT 2000 made in China?
We want to field Al Zarrar tanks after the national fiasco that was the decision to acquire the F7 which was beneath us and tantamount to retrogression? So that we line up behind T90, Abrams M1, Leclerc and Challenger tanks at the UNSC with Al Zarrar duds?
Kai…Nigeria. Why do we like to subject ourselves to ridicule and wilfully make ourselves look unworthy? African nations with half the GDP of Lagos fly Su-30 jets and roll in T90 tanks while Nigeria are aspiring to UNSC permanent membership and do not know that power projection is the bottomline? Amassing F7 jets and planning for Al Zarrar tanks? We cannot respect ourselves and our nation?
I think the strategy is to acquire copy-able technology first and then reverse engineer, I don’t support that kind of thinking. It is the same engineering effort you extend in all cases for whatever you acquire so what is the gain in going for the cheap.
Some have called the Su-27/30 jets maintenance beasts. Honestly, we are getting too cheap for our own good? How do Eritrea with a third the GDP of Lagos manage to operate MiG 29s and Su-27s?
Hey Guys what do u think of the Mil 28 NE- Night Hunter?
Or the Ka-52? I think we should go for dis specific platforms too and upgrade the Number of Mi-35M to at least 15. We can den also Get more Mi-17 and Mi-17Sh Terminators that way we have Very Capable Helicopter Gunships that are Specific for Close Air Support in Built up Areas, Transport and Interdiction, Strike and Attack, ISR, Search and Rescue, Crisis and Disaster Response and Escort.
We should then Ram up our Search for Advanced Jets. This rumours aren’t helping let’s go for Sukhoi 35BM, Su-27, Tucano and Tornado IDS
And Can anyone tell me why the AS-Fennec promised us hasn’t been delivered by our “Friends” In France? And The 6-9 Mil Gunships promised us by Russia? Na wa ooo….all dis promise and fail people smh
http://www.punchng.com/news/special-forces-capture-bharam-leader-kill-70-insurgents/ any idea guys
Wat a way to start d weekend
oga LORD FEJ
THIS IS VERY BIG NEWS whomever this was to require an immediate HELICOPTER EVACUATION. ( Remind again about the intensity of this conflict unrelenting as it is about why we do not need troops).
Thst BH ‘big man’ is going to get released in Abuja. The government is fractured into many blocs of competing interests with competing foreign interests and many northern governors and a lot of PDP members are suspect.
This was essentially why the various security organs stopped talking to each other a few years ago and even with the government’s charge that they improve inter service communication, i recommend to NA organs like the DMI to act cagey in their dealings from now on.
Imagine a convoy of jeeps belonging to ‘BH leadership” driving out of a battlefield zone. So many questions are provoked.
Hopefully, we find out their sponsors from him.
Yeah Oga drag on, Water Boarding all the way.
I don’t want to tell SSS,NIA or DMI how to do their job, but “Water Boarding” is the most effective way to break these prisoners, and get them to reveal their sponsors.
It is a simple procedure that triggers the anxiety reflex that all human beings possess.
Merely covering the face with a towel, hands bound, and pouring bottled water on the towel triggers a drowning sensation, that almost no man can overcome.
While there is a zero threat of real drowning, the experience is so displeasing to the senses, the victims spill all their secrets, rather than go thru the experience again.
Logical thinking simply cannot overcome the anxiogenic effect.
And more HELIOS
This is also the first confirmed reports of tanks being used in anger since the Sierra Leone / Liberia civil wars.
The Ukraine crisis looks set to affect the international defence procurement market in many ways:
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140320/DEFREG02/303200027/US-Considers-Sanctions-Against-Russian-Defense-Sector?odyssey=mod|nextstory
so if der ar sanction’d wot of our yet to be delliverd hardware frm russia,pls can some one tell america dat der reign is over
Well, Ukraine and the U.S. will have to supply the equivalent of what we are losing (and at russian prices). But first let us get those 6 su 30s fast.
From the little i have read,these sanctions may not be international. India and China are Russia’s largest arms trade partners and are likely to ignore it. France is to deliver Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia and will most likely to do it. So our helics should come home.
Gentlemen, I think our people are getting it all wrong !
I have silently read almost everything about NAF jet fighter debates here for the past 3 years, I want to say a few words now on what I see about NAF F-7NI, imaginary SU-27/30 Flankers, JF-17 Thunder, and the even more imaginary Tornado jets that have been posted on this forum. as ‘speculated incoming’ jet fighters.
Please let us face reality here, Nigeria has never been a major air to air combat power in Africa since independence. So what are we missing ? Nothing, the status quo has remained the same since 1960, nothing changed, nothing spoil o !
See my good brothers, in the 1970s to 1990s NAF was flying inferior MiG 21 when Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, and South Africa were flying far superior MiG 23, MiG 25, Mirage F1, Mirage 2000, etc.
Nigeria was never a player in the realm of air superiority jet fighters in Africa. We have always been inferior in air to air power from the beginning of our existence.
So what are we missing that we are complaining about ?
F-7NI jet is an advancement for NAF beyond the MiG 21. We now have a half swing wing, PL-9C modern missile armed, 3G jet fighter with some 4G hardware on board including the about 42 km range Grifo-7 radar, see http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/fighters-i.html
The best of NAF was Jaguar jets armed with no missile, just some free fall iron bombs that a MiG 21 can deliver with less accuracy, but an F-7NI will deliver with better accuracy than the Jaguar due to modern targeting systems and the air to ground radars of the F-7NI.
Love or hate your F-7NI, it is yours….live with it for now…..pray for JF-17 Thunder to come.
JF-17 Thunder we are not satisfied with ? We want SU-30 Flankers, wow ! What a long jump.
Well you know dreams can come true, I know it may happen, but a bad omen I see there, as we go back to the days of Jaguar jets we cannot maintain locally and open to arms embargo/sanctions again.
Is it only Nigeria that has no SU-30 class of jets ? Powerful Argentina the mighty challenger of Great Britain is still flying the same old 1982 Falkland war jets with upgrades. Brazil just decided to buy Gripen jets. These are military powers of South America.
Mighty Egypt and big budget South Africa, as well as many NATO countries have no heavy jets in the class of SU-30 Flanker. Why is Nigeria thinking JF-17 is not enough ? Even our F-7NI makes the whole of West Africa bow to us. When NAF is in the air in anger, no other ECOWAS country flies at that hour.
Russia wont transfer technology to Nigeria for SU-30 Flanker jets unless we pay a cost that will eat up all our defence budget.
Argentina, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are all working hard to get joint venture production partnership deal and technology transfer from Pakistan to build JF-17 Thunder locally in their countries.
Why is Nigeria looking for SU-27/30 and Tornadoes when battle tested Argentina has learnt the lesson of self sufficiency in arms production if you want to win a war.
Falklands war lessons, Britain told France to embargo all arms sales to Argentina while Britain got all arms she wanted from any source in the world including the source codes on Argentina’s Exocet missiles to defeat the anti-ship missiles, thanks to France.
Remember, Pakistan got into JF-17 Thunder because America was dictating to them as if the Pakis are school boys on why they will not upgrade their F-16 jets or supply more.
See, when war comes, Nigerian should be able to do what Iran is doing with her F-14 Tomcats till today. Let us be wise. Go Paki, go China, never trust America/Europe. Thay made us lose Bakassi to Cameroon. Why is Russia annexing Crimea under the nose of Ukraine ? Why dont USA/NATO go kick Russia out of Crimea and see World WAR III ?
If you have JF-17 Thunder built in Nigeria under licence, and Akash SAM from India, France wont stop you from retaking Bakassi by force….who needs a permanent seat on UN Security council ? The white man will continue to put needles and nails on that chair every time Nigeria’s representative seats down on it for Africa. Na UN seat we go chop ?
Nigeria focuses on air defence, not air superiority. That has been our age long doctrine….300 Roland SAM missiles, hundreds of SA-7 and Blowpipe MANPAD SAMs, hundreds of AAA air defence guns from Shilka to Bofors to Oerlikon to Type 90.
No air force in this world will fly against you if your air defense is deadly. Roland is deadly except for the short range and obsolescence (I did not use the word obsolete, Spain of NATO still uses Roland SAM today)
A hopefully re-equipped Nigerian army with 16 new Indian Akash systems will make Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Angola,Uganda and South Africa to park their F-16, SU-27, MiG 29, SU-30, and Gripen jets in the air base hanger while they discuss peace with Nigeria in the case of any conflict arising.
Only foolish air marshals send air superiority jets into a deadly SAM zone without a SEAD operation first carried out to neutralize enemy SAMs.
No African country can do an effective SEAD against Nigeria. Maybe Egypt and Morocco can attempt it and they will likely fail.
I read here that an SU-30 airborne in middle belt will search, track and close in to shoot down intruder jets in Lagos, well that is if the intruder has no ECM…jammers, chaff, flare to waste the BVR missiles of the SU-30 Flanker.
I have watched videos of Gulf war air to air combat with deep analysis from the very USAF pilots who fought those air engagements fully re-enacted in 3D live video format and every second a technical analysis is made of the ongoing fight.
It was amazing to see how missiles get defeated by ECM and wasted. Pilot error of judgement and lack of AWACS support seems to be the only reason USAF defeated Iraqi air force MiG 25, MiG 29 and Mirages.
Saddam forgot to buy AWACS, he was a fool, and he paid dearly for it by losing the war and losing his life afterwards.
If Nigeria has Akash SAM, no dude will try to waste his Flanker or Gripen, if he tries it, Nigeria will help him waste his expensive birds and the bird men flying them.
What is the future of Uganda and Eritrea with their heavy Sukhoi Flanker jets ? Those guys never think about tomorrow…typical Africans !
Buy JF-17 Thunder together with full technology transfer, and Nigeria will have a future.
Thank you sirs.
Long live the federal republic of Nigeria….Amen !
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/stuck-in-sichuan-pakistani-jf17-program-grounded-02984/ the more research i make on this plane.the more i think we should go for it
And fast too.
If the Saudis get in their with their money first then …..\/)#$&&!@.
My thoughts
(1) We really need the Al Zarrar tanks or upgrade kits! We have over 100 T55s which are next to dead and can be reactivated under an upgrade program to have an extended lifeline of up to 20years. Even thought he tanks would not be very hitech, they would still fill the need for a medium capability platform that would be adequate for COIN operation ,peace keeping. I would also improve the capability of the engineering corps to locally upgrade tanks and break our tradition of “use till wrecked and wait forever for upgrade or replacement”-Moreso Several countries are upgrading soviet time platforms for extended life to reduce cost and maintain operational readiness- remember Typhoon upgrade form Ukraine and others from Iran ,Egypt, Serbia, Croatia e.t.c. We should also consider conversion of some to APC, tracked mobile clinics e.t.c We can buy Leopards and T90’s for trans border treats, but we need a low maintenance power packed medium capability platform also. Our Vickers Mk 3 are no where near Alzarra and they are getting the job done!
(2)KAAN 33 patrol crafts- they are costly, very hitech and great for interception (great speed) speed. If we can standardize patrol platforms under 40m around this design and have it adopted and built by local civilian ship yards ( not Naval Dockyard- it is already over stressed and not properly funded-building 30m boat in 2 years is a production engineering embarrassment!-Yes we agree that those guys are good and resilient) under incense- it would help with anti-bunkering. however- some useless technological attachment which would result in maintenance nightmare should be stripped off the adopted design.
(3) JF17 and the rest: Acquiring any 4th gen platform ( Grippen,Su30…..) is a welcome idea, long overdue; however our mistake in the past ( remember the Jags) was to acquire hitec platforms but not the technology behind it, hence we were unable to cope when manufacturer stopped support due to political reasons. The direction in which we should move is a direction of Joint development programs and co-manufacture;JF17 has open architecture and can be supported by several countries ( engines can be fixed in Russia-Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia),avionics and weaponics can be stripped and replaced has due necessary ( since they are decoupled from the airframe). the starting point would be the establishment of
(a) Start Aeronautics Engineering department in 4 higher civilian institutions and two military institutions to domesticate the technological acquisition process-This is what is obtainable in modern worlds ( civilian institutions have better continuity than the military-hence the are often used as custodian of technologies that requires constant improvement)
(b) Upgrade of AESTL into a full fledged Aviation company with divestment, civil investment and inter-government partnership-
(c) The project should be based strictly on a financial viability factor with intent to sell later to good cronies in West Africa-We had Vickers assembled in Kenya
(d) Enter into a CKD agreement with 5-10% local material replacement in 5 years and place a firm order of 50 units over 5 years (20 for sale by soft agreement to friendly country)
With time the company will diversify into UAV productions, Helix assembly, engage more higher institutions for Rand D and provide services to civil aviation sector.
(4) Mi 24,35,Terminator- we are ramping procurement up on these like monthly- when are we going to launch a Mil Partnership Center like Denel did ?( the funny thing is that SAAF does not use Mil helix-but SA companies noticed countries like Nigeria/Angola/Mali/Rwanda/Zimbabawe are crazy about it and they would require somebody to upgrade, refit and service them in future; so Denel took franchise and became the owner of the largest Mil backed service facility in Africa)-Please don’t bring up BVST, what they are planning and doing is just too far from what Denel has!
@Are James I just can’t help but to stand with you on this one,the morale of Nigerians and our brave heroic soldiers would have been further lifted if it was reported by the top brass that Mr prominent so and so was caught in gwoza hills and his believed to be a chief sponsor of the sect,we has arrested him with so and so arms and cash sum of this and that,with a crowned daming face lifting pictures of this dude and his jeeps in Gwoza hills during his attempted escape,bt wat do we get after much innocent blood has been spilled?? “Secrecy” and soon to be walking free after some calls are made…damn,I just hope am Wrong an this one.
At times I wonder the wisdom behind the well known secrecy of our military. Yesterday, I had an informal meet with my ‘contact’ that is very close to this ‘VIP’ mentioned in one of my previous post, he told me in clear terms that some of the hardware have been secretly delivered and awaiting proper induction while some are being refitted and re-armed in a ‘small country somewhere’ and some being ‘discussed’ with relevant authorities on a govt to govt basis. But my concern was the secrecy associated with the procurement considering we are in the middle of a war and such information would act as a morale booster for our officers and men in the frontline. Guys guess the answer!..’Na their way o’. Gentlemen, does anyone have an idea on why this un neccessary and irritating secrecy? I tire ooo
Everyday, gentlemen, it looks increasingly likely to me that the NAF might be taking delivery of six refurbished Su-30K jets in 2014. The NAF will be 50 this year while Nigeria is 100 this year. Either for the purpose of NAF Air Expo 2014 or the Independence Day P’rade, someone is finally thinking like he works for a giant and not for a midget.
When one of Ogas Startrek or Dragon alluded to some secret big jet purchase from a big country and the training of the pilots for same in an unnamed small country, I put my head on the block and said BELARUS is it…see the Mi-35M thread.
Well, Mighty Yagz again alluded to the acquisition of six Su-30K jets and the ongoing upgradation of same in Belarus. See his last post above.
Now Chucks has joined the chorus telling the refurbishment of some unnamed jet for Nigeria in a small country.
My mind tells me that this shall be the greatest year in history fot the beleaguered NAF whose seemingly modest ambitions appears to have been the cause of great irritation for millions of military-savvy Nigerians who saw our national air warfare institution not listed among the nine top gun airforces in Africa because of our exasperating lack of ambition.
If the NAF receive six upgraded Su-30K jets and nineteen Mi-17/Mi-35P/Mi-171Sh Terminator/Mi-35M, we shall boldly proclaim that there is a blue moon over Nigeria.
If as Oga Chucks said that some have been delivered and awaiting induction while some are being upgraded elsewhere, it points not just to the SU-30s in Belarus, but to a possibly already delivered SU-27 batch as rumoured by a member of the armed forces on Nairaland.
On the SU-30 jets, I really want to believe these stories are true, but I’d have to choose the safer option and remain pessimistic.
Mindless, old fashioned 70s style secrecy is an explanation. It is definitely not coming out of security consciousness. A country that is security conscious would not have all military barracks and front line air base in a war zone unfenced and poorly defended.
Keeping quiet about acquisitions however does not make a country safe and may turn your country into an unwilling target of machinations by forces who play all these regional destabilization games for religion,kicks, power or money.
International relations is the animal kingdom (a jungle) where your opponents can smell your weakness and will pounce if they detect it. Since country to country invasion is so difficult now as Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan have shown, the new game in town is destabilization by proxies operating inside the target country examples; Syria,Yemen, CAR, Congo, Libya….
The only way to prevent these attempts is to secure your borders acquire an optimum level of the very latest weapons, show them off and do frequent and well publicized military exercises that show your capability to plug all weak areas in your defence and security profile.
We know of many African countries who have bought sophisticated platforms that they cannot operationalize immediately but have acquired them anyway just for the deterrence value of keeping rival neighbouring countries in check. When you show of what you have, regional rivals shiver and think twice about doing stuff against you.
A second reason for secrecy could be internal corruption. If my country was offered a 4.5 generation jet for $22.5 million each and I need to corruptly skim off big money from the deal, what better way to do than to do the ‘needful’ nocturnal meetings, pay $25million for each of them, share and hide the loots, install a regime of secrecy over the entire deal, clamp down on information so that you can obfuscate enough facts that a financial audit trail of the transactions become impossible.
we really need to dominate the battlespace. 15 truck convoy, 7 destroyed, 8 escaped. kudos to the boys.
however, this particular firefight where 8 vehicles escaped isn’t highly noteworthy. a situation where these insurgents are ambushed and they re still able to carry out vehicular escape and evasion is highly unacceptable. yes, some of them terrs can escape on foot, but not a manoeuvre that involves half the convoy escaping destruction.
we need to work more on our utilization of firepower. no vehicle should survive a well planned elaborate L-shaped ambush, be it trucks or AA cannons .
well done NA. there is still room for improvement, but a big well done
@Freegulf,I had wondered too when I read that report,8 trucks escaped??? Like you rightly said it surely would have been better if some terrs had escaped on foot bt nt without bullet wounds of course *winks*,but wen a wooping 8 trucks just sail towards their heaven,mehn!!! that’s a “Convoy” successful envaded the radars,Not good enough,this callz for more attack helo’s in this battle of the North-East it’s high time we get it right…Bravo special forces,thumps up Nigeria Armed forces…
It is understandable that eight (8) trucks escape a Special Forces ambush, SFs operate in too small (though lethal) numbers to handle such large mobile forces. If they had tried to take out the entire convoy, costly casualties would no doubt have resulted on the SF side.
It is however disappointing that calls that were ostensibly made to the air force to search out and bomb the remainder convoy were probably not acted upon by NAF due again to a lack of capacity.
Well, if NAF decides to spend real money on say 75 to 90 of the JF-17s, we could then demand deal sweetners from the Chinese and the Pakistanis.
The Al zarrar would be such a sweetner.
Also, the old but upgraded A-5 Fantan attack jet flown for decades by PAF could also suffice as a deal sweetner.
It is based on the mig-19, and has morphed into an attack jet that can more than compliment our Alpha jet operations.
Sudan is also using them in conjunction with the SU-25 in the ground attack role.
one basic problem we have failed to realize is dat nigeria has the capacity to respond to any aggression by even the french .gratified they will hit in a few assaults but by the time they celebrate to much our ingenuity comes to play.in such situation u will be suprized at how will deal with them so dont bet your chicken against that.my grudge against the f-17 is its hard points only two and mehn those extra fuel tank slots could be converted into hard point for sead bombs.but with the backup deal and plan whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat are we waiting for grab it with both hands.@tope pls dont even talk about tornado jets here (no more jag wahala) next thing britain would tell use what strike package to use and distance to fly.our main focus should be toward eastern europe china,russia and pakistan.they share their technology to contries they consider business like and low threat.when you compare our pilots to sudan and angola i laugh.my friend who lives in angola and is close to the air top brass made me know that most of thier su-30k are not being flown only a few are used in test flight and patrols the reason.not enough funds for spareparts.he told me dat our pilots flying our little alpha jets have more flight hours than the entire squadron of angolan su-30k.he even told me jokingly that our jets can outgun the angolans in any dogfight whatsoever.oga beegs aparts from panhard air defence systems whats ohter mobile air defence systems do we have.
The latter part of your post explains what I have been saying here. Nigeria is rightfully going for holistic capabilities instead of just buying ‘shiny new computer embedded scrap metal’ which is what you are getting when you buy a 5th gen jet that cannot be operated optimally because you don’t have all the pilots, maintenance facilities, inspection facilities or supporting infrastructure to derive maximum benefits from it.
A good example is data link technology and how much a 4th generation fighter jet becomes more useful to us than most other African countries because we have satellites in orbit and information like pictures, videos, location and targeting information can be exchanged real time with those jets.
This video of the sepecat jaguar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ5JdYWopCk makes me wonder again why on earth are those beautiful birds gathering dust. Why is the best fight jets we have in our arsenal.. the best and the most modern relatively .. The above video shows some of the capabilities of a Jagua especially as a ground attack fighting bird (looking at boko haram) its shows how flexible it is (I mean that thing can take off and land on a road).. It seems to me that what we are looking for in Sokoto is right there in our Sokoto. Lets reach out to the Indians, am sure there would be glad to help us reactivate our Jags at a lot lesser cost. At the same time we can still be in the market for better 4th gen Fight jets.
Th Indians already upgraded their jags aircraft include new engine and flight instrument system, solid state digital video recording system, solid state flight data recorder, new man-machine interface (near glass cockpit) with two smart multi function display and head-up display.
Legally, we cannot do anything with our Jaguars. We did not fully pay for them as we have been made to know because we did not get full capabilities from them. If reactivating the Jaguars is going to make us in anyway dependent on the British and their funny ways (Perfidious Albion) then I say let them rot where they are. Upgraded Alpha jets and MB339CDs with external drop tanks give us the same capabilities with less annoying Anglo Saxon meanderings..
Brother dey vex. Lol… Oh yes, tell the snotty noses how to slide it.
For reasons not unrelated to our history(read, sanctions), it is imperative that we develop weapons production synergies with amoral republics such as Israel, China, Russia and Pakistan.
REF China and Pakistan, we must choose who to champion whichever drive, carefully.
If our goal is the service life elongation of the T55 for small wars at home and in Africa, we can give that to POLY TECHNOLOGIES OF CHINA. The T59G with her improved armour and 125mm gun as already operable in Tanzania, presents a good template for T55 upgradation.
IF we come good and get a startup haul of six Su-30s, we should endeavour to build that up to twelve units in total by 2015 – eight air superiority variants and four trainer variants. As one has pointed out severally, a Nigeria which share borders with the Gulf of Guinea, the Sahel, Central Africa and West Africa must position her airforce to operate across these theatres. So Su-30s with their staggering 2,000 mile radius need to be positioned at our extremes for maximum strike reach in the absence of in-flight refuelling tankers. Position the pairs of Su-30s at MDGR, CAL, SOK and LAG.
Meantime, allow time for the JF17 Thunder Blk 2 to be perfected. We must not buy the comparatively rudimentary Blk 1 variant. The JF17 PROJECT should be the primary focus of Nigeria-Pakistan relations. 30 units of JF17 Blk 2 should be okay for 2016-18 because the NAF need not return to rot and should commence the gradual induction of Su-35s in quadruples by 2020. Leave Pakistan out of the T55 upgrade and let DICON’s partners, Poly Technologies of China, champion that effort.
At the secondary level, with twelve Su-30s and thirty JF17 Blk 2 jets, Pakistan can now come in to support the expansion of what must become our third-tier jets…F7s. They have phased out squadrons of those as they took delivery of JF17 jets. Their BVR-capable F-7PG is arguably the most powerful variant of the AirGuard. If we can get 30 units of those for US$45-50 million, that would very cheaply expand our F7 fleet to sufficient numbers necessary to make a dent in the point defence role. After all,”quantity represents a certain QUALITY of its own” at some point.
Seconded.
There are over 60 upgrade packages available for T55(T59) from Isreali Tiran to original manufacturers in Russia, However some packages involves actual rebuilding (some with up to 60 modifications and even more additions), the most talked about and believed to be best ( based on wide commentary) of the total rebuilding types upgrades are the Ukraninan Typhoon package ( All new engine,new suspension,new tracks,FSC,barrels…. its like an attempt to build T84 Oplot on T55 chassis and frame) and the Pakistani Alzarrar which is like am attempt to replicate Alkhalid tank on T59 frame. Thyphoon upgrades leave you MBT somewhere between T72 and T90 (brand new) Alzarrar upgrade is also a bit more deeper than T59G;even though T59G looks better.
With the Alzarrar/Typhoon its like you are building a new model tank all over again ( a new type of tank with old frame),strap on and minimal rebuilding types upgrades best are the Israeli Tiran-5Sh,Serbian T55H,Slovenian M55N(heavy Israeli influence) after which likes of Iranian Safir,Sudanese Digna However,cost wise, we know that T59G would give more value for money. Typhoon Upgrade cost for a single T55 is rumored to cost more than a T72 second hand tank.
What we really need is a decision to upgrade all existent amours with a lifeline relevance for 18years and invite bids like Peru to find what is best for us.
concerning JF17, perfection process will never stop, buy what you want and upgrade as neccesary, since JF17 is planned to replace F7, I think we should slowly let go our widow maker and not ramp up on their numbers.quantity can tip the balance in a conflict but does not change quality.
Not sure how many remember today that a decade ago, Messrs MarshPearl and EXPOMA variously got contracts to upgrade 36 Scorpion light tanks and 18 T55 tanks for the NA. These tasks were carried out in-country at the Special Vehicle Plant.
at some point in time WE AS NIGERIANS HAVE TO BELIEVE IN OUR OWN CAPABILITIES
I went and read up on the SU30 and saw a lot more of what I like compared to the JF 17, I hope and pray that the news from what I know to be credible sources OGA CHUCKS, OGA BEEGEAGLE IS TRUE .Please God let us do the right thing this time for God and country let us buy the right plane ( Multi- task / dual fighter) with 3000 km radius on one fuel tank without corruption rearing its ugly head.The one thing i saw about the JF17 IS IT HAS A HUGE HEAT SIGNATURE AS EVIDENCED BY THE PLUME FROM ITS EXHAUST.
Incidentally the small African country that has the SU30 is Uganda. Nigeria has good relations with her.
OGA DOZIEX please correct me if I am wrong PAKISTAN and Nigeria may share the same green roundel however on the Rear wing tip of most PAKISTANI AIRCRAFT are what appears to be ARABIC INSCRIPTIONS so this will be a big difference oh well till April we just have to wait and see..
So many prayers are required o…let me join you in them.
May God make the NAF do the right thing. Make them buy the SU 30K with upgrades and the JF17.
Make them build the necessary partnership so that we gain capabilities and dual use technology that we can adapt to other areas of the economy to provide jobs and improve GDP.
Also..
Make them stop trying to develop the capability to support hajj or Jerusalem pilgrimage operations… lol, make them stop trying to get into the airline business it is dangerously distracting and you did not intend them to be aero contractors oh Lord, make them stop deploying three choppers for first lady bodyguard duties at this time of ruthless killing of civilians, make them alive to their primary role instead of annoying things like VIP transport, support for NAOWA members shopping trips and let them change doctrine and philosophy from the pedestrian/age-old – ‘air support to sister services’ to something more purposefully like – ‘air dominance & security from the Sahara to the Gulf of guinea’
i suspect u saw dat fake story of an officer and his madam on nairaland.
I have always say this,our flyboys are not the mumu type fighter pilots,take them, the F-7 Airguard pilots to Russia and train them on the SU-30/35 Flanker and observe how they will surprise the Russians the way the late Wg Cdr Ben Ekele and Co did to Russian and French fighter pilots.
NAF fighter pilots can not take up to two year to learn how to fly the Sukhoi Flanker! No bi mouth i de make here,na naija people we be,we no de do smel smel,carry go!
How much has the Executive and the NASS spent on vehicles,jet fuel for PAF,maitenance ,travel allowance,personal allowance etc since 1999 till date and compare that with the budgetary allocation for the armed forces with particular attention to the NAF which is a high-tech armed service- for the same period,then your though might be *****!
We have the money,give us the airframes that can be used to secure our airspace effectively!
And for the NAF we know you hidding your cards very close to your chest,however,we must know what type of airframe you have acquired,except if you do not carry out test flight,hehe… much respect for all Beeg Eagle bloggers and the Landlord himself!
lik d word landlord,oga landlord we de tenants are greetin mornin sir
Oga CAS would like to cruise in the Flanker before he retire from the NAF. The late Russian Air Force fighter pilot,the Hero of Russia, Pugachev,once said that ” when he first flew the SU-27,he was surprise that the plane and his body system were connected and it was cool to fly it”.It is a privilage and a great opportunity for a fighter pilot to fly the SU-27/30/35 Flanker jets,the best fighter in the world!
If we have actually acquired the SU-30K,then the upgrade should be at par with th e IAF SU-30MKI variant standard.
Let’s be careful with nomenclatures here.
I think it is too early to determine which versions we are getting and whether they are coming with the canard flight control surfaces in front. So naming the type is better left until we actually get them. One very commendable thing about the acquisition though is in the sheer scope of upgradeability available for this jet which the Indians have exploited to the fullest.
Su-27 FLANKER
Su-30MKI
@Beegeagle
Thanks for the persistent advocacy for this aircraft going on many years now that seem to be finally bearing fruit.
The upgrade of the six SU-30K to the SU-30MKN,the N for Nigeria should include:
*Radar-the Tikhomirov NIIP N011M BARS PESA radar or the Phazotron NIIR Zhuk(Beetle) MSF/MSFE PESA radar which is equivalent in technology to the French RBE2 PESA radar in the Rafale fighter jet,but not the NIIP Tikhomirov N001E Myech coherent Pulse Doppler radar;
*Laser-Optical Locator System- OLS-30 but not the OEPS-31E-MK electro-optical system;
*the upgraded KnIIRTI L-005 Sorbstiya Phase array jamming pods-design to disrupt Western tracking radars and missile seekers;
*2 X Lyulka-Saturn Al-31FP turbofan with thrust vector control(TVC) engines;
*a quadruplex digital flight control system with an electrical sidestick controller;
*plumbing for aerial refueling;
*clearance to launch :for AAM- R-77/AA-12 Adder active radar homing (100km)BVR,R-27P/AA-10C Alamo semiactive radar guided(130km)BVR,R-27P/AA-10D Infrared homing seeker(120km)BVR,R-27A Semiactive radar guide(80km)BVR,R-27T/AA-10B Infrared homing seeker(70km)BVR,R-73/AA-11 Archer(30km)WVR, and Novator AWACS-Killer K-100(400km)BVR;
*for Air-to-Surface-Missiles- Kh-59METV/M2E Ovod-M/AS-18 guided Stand-Off missile(115km),Kh-59MK/MK2/AS-18 Kazoo active radar homing antiship missile(285km),Kh-38 Ansh missile(130km),Kh-61 Yakhont/Bramos/SS-N-26 Stallion(300km),Kh-41 Moskit/SS-N-22 Sunburn,Kh-31P/A/AS-17 Krypton anti-radar missile(135NMi),Kh-29T/L/AS-14 Kedge laser guided missile(30km) similar to the French AS.30 and US AGM-65 Maverick,SS-N-25 Switchblade,SS-N-27 Sizzler both cruise missiles similar to US Tomahawk,S-8 rocket pod(80 unguided rockets),and S-13 rocket pod(20 unguided rockets);
*for Bombs- KAB-1500L Laser guided bomb,KAB-500L Laser guided bomb,and dumb bombs. NAF HQs and NAF aircraft engineering,electronics and ordnance unit should take note of all the thing I have stated for the upgradation of those SU-30K,please ooo… brand-new engines(Al-31FP or the latest variant if any) for the jets.
About Secrecy in weapons procurement:
Secrecy is a necessary evil in weapons procurement in Nigeria. We are a developing country where ethno-religious sentiments runs deep. It wasn’t brought to public notice that president Obansanjo bought over 200-250 small patrol boats at the height of Niger Delta Crisis because political opponents would have cashed in on that greatly and that might encourage the conflict situation to spiral out of control. With time all that is bought will be known,however my concern is borne out of lack of transparency in the deals( what ever is done in the dark leaves room for dark spirits of greed to operate),I have not find any evidence and I am not insinuating anything though.
If we procure say 50 APCs in public glare, the headlines would probably read ” No negotiation again-No peace-All out destruction plan approved !President XXX procures 1000 Amoured tanks to finish of Northern militants” and PR war would start in the media with possible damaging political effects which any government would love to avoid.
Now we get it.
Compellingly internal geo political realities.
Tnx, Are.
We have not shouted or agonised in vain. We are on our way back to being a top gun airforce. The contrived ambush of the NAF has failed
if Nigeria was to properly plug every conceivable leaking gap in her security apparatus including air defense and intelligence gathering. General beegs i am no expert but since we have powerful people reading this blog. I think a holistic recommendation of necessary upgrades to each defense service is necessary and blog member can also discuss about it. I also believe if Nigeria wont get top range interceptors then proper air defense is necessary. This was how Egypt was able to keep the Israeli air force at bay and their planes were operating behind that shield. my 2 cents though .
Oga Beegz,
Please check your email.
The best fighters in the world are the F-15 (%100 record), the F-22 Raptor (No peer) and the Eurofighter Typhoon. The Flanker series while highly maneaverable does not compensate for its deficiencies in avionics and computer control systems.
oga oje pls wot are dere capacities dat made dem d best
Oga Oje,that is a big lier o,do not be carried away by Western propaganda!
Westerners sucks at propaganda. Russia and China and the kings of propaganda, their media is no way as free and independent as what is obtainable in the West. The F-15 is the very “first American jet fighter designed for maneovability. The F-15 has never been shut down despite over 30 years of service. This is not propaganda, its fact. The F-22 Raptor 20 years on still have no pairs, its never a fair fight with the raptor. The Raptor is designed to take on twelve enemy fighters at the same time and win. Pitting 6 fighters against one F-22 Raptor is still not even a fair fight. China’s and Russia’s attempt at a 5th generation fighter and laughable and still in the works.
The Eurofighter Typhoon is a quasi 5th generation fighter when it comes to avionics and 360 degree situation awareness. Let’s face it, Russia has no equivalent. We live in the age of BVR engagements, being manoeuvrable is not enough to survive. American stealth and avionics more than compensates for anything Russia has.
Oga Oje,much respect to you,but it seems you have little knowledge about contemporary Russian fighter jets especially the Sukhoi T-10 family.Do your research very well.
Russian fighter capabilties have evolved rapidly since the end of the Cold War,”Assessing Russian Fighter Technology” By Dr Carlo Kopp of AirPower Australia,26th June,2008.
Find out the Indian Air Force,IAF SU-30K not even the advanced MKI did to the US Air Force F-15C Eagle in Cope India Exercise,Red Flag War game 2008,again the IAF SU-30MKI defeated the US Air Force F-15,F-16 with the exception of the F-22 Raptor due to its stealth capability without it,the Raptor would be fried by the flanker.SU-30MKI Vs F-16C and F/A-18E/F,SU-30MKI Vs Mirage-2000-5,SU-30MKI Vs RAF Tornado F-3 ADV,SU-30MKI Vs Typhoon were all defeated by the IAF SU-30MKI Flanker H+ fighter jet.
Have read about the L-band radar?it is a counter-stealth radar,read the Relaigh scatter in Physics,check the wave-length and frequency range for this band.
The same micro-chips used in building radar processors and missile seekers in the Silicon Valley in the USA, are also been used on Russian fighter jets avionics and missile seekers.
Find out which country started using an operational Helment-Mounted-Sight and the IRST.
By the time you finished your research,you will then understand why the Flanker is the must- buy jet in the international arms market !
Plus the Russians developed a simple way to counter stealth by using older radar systems with longer wavelengths. The only area where Russian technology will keep lagging is aerial battlefield data management – acquisition, processing, interpretation and transfer and how to do all that on terabytes of data in microseconds.
Record against who and under what circumstances? Shooting down Migs that have not been upgraded for over 18 years in Serbia or obliterating Archaic SAM sites or amour columns some that are over 20 years old in Libya,Iraq,Serbia e.t.c does not in any way qualify a platform as been better than others. What record does F15 or Typhoon have against S400 missiles sites or Mig 29SMT or Su-30MKI? All wars involving NATO are often loop sided with the opponents often several years behind technologically ( at times ages behind, as in Afghanistan).
Moreso, an appraisal of an aircraft cannot be done independent of the Airforce flying it due to factors like C4SIR,maintenance tradition and air doctrines. other factors to consider are initial cost,training and follow up maintenance cost, e.t.c.
Weapons world is very small, there is no single technology that anybody had developed that someone else will not replicate similar thing 5-10 years. Russia T50 is fully tested and already entering mass production in 2 years, it is already a better option than upgraded F22 because it features open weapons system integration architecture of the west, similar RCS,better radar and cost about half! It was built and designed for export right form the scratch. 4++ platforms like Su35/Mig 35 also have also proven cheaper and attractive than western counterparts (F18E/F15SE Euro-fighter e.t.c.) chiefly because Russian consistent policy of not politically twisting weapons deals. Egypt,Pakistan,Malaysia are traditional western customers that have looked east recently after detailed evaluation of having value for their money-since they no longer have much to gain politically!
Western Platforms are however more popular because they see more actions against vulnerable foes,their development and sales are also tied to the very fabric of NATO’s Unity.
lately,even the Chinese are lately challenging the west with Cheap platforms with commesutate capability e.g. L15 and J10/JF17 (basic frame)which would not cost up to half of the nearest western counterpart-yet can be fitted with all western avionics and weapons!
In this light I am forced to ask the same question. Under what circumstances are the Flankers the best fighter jets in the world? Save for airshows have they been proven In combat? Two Flankers and one Bomber were shot down by Georgia’s non existent air defence guns, this is next door georgia where huge logistical and support assets can be quickly brought to bear on the enemy, how will these fighters fare in a strategic air campaigne say in far away Iraq or Turkey? People just choose to ignore the fact and go on ranting, its the rave but its senseless. The American aerospace industrial complext is unmatched. They are better funded with a history of reliability. Its been 22 years since the F-22 Raptor became operational Russia still have to answer to it, its lame attempt in a 5th generation fighter is obviously still a long way to go.
News just coming in a Turkish F-16 Falcon just shot down a Syrian Mig 29 fighter jet. In all engagements between American and Russian fighters the Russian fighters American Jets have always come up on top, and your analysis on the T-50 is ludacris and ill informed.
Its a Mig 23 ground attack variant against an F16 ( probably F16 C) The Mig 23 is probably lacking anything near modern equipment other than bombs and rockets to clear insurgents- it is definitely not a Fair tie, Syrian Missile battery shot down and unarmed F4 last year- that does not mean that the American Aircrafts are bad.
@ Solarex, thank you very much
And mind you he F-22 is the only aircraft that blends supercruise speed, super-agility, stealth and sensor fusion into a single air dominance platform. The facts its taking Russia over 25 years to build a comparable 5th gen fighter which still isn’t a match. India last most withdrew from the venture citing reliability issues.
Not disputing it all am saying is that for now su 35 is better than the f-15 and second in line to the F-22 on till the Su-50 is fully tested and inducted then we would know what its capable of
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone provided by Airtel Nigeria.
Super Cruise is no longer big deal,Agility (FBW) is already allover several 4++ platforms, stealth and sensor fusion are big deals, yet T50 has all. It was built right form scratch to compete with F22 ( if it does not compete well, then it won’t be viable)
Exactly my point Sir, never said the flankers are the best, like I said it depends on a whole lot of other things ranging from C4SIR,cost e.t.c the best for a country might not be the best for another-
Here are the facts concerning Georgia conflict; Georgia add a great air defense system that had been upgraded by Ukrainian/Isreali contractors, they deployed Modern Tor M ( upgraded barely 12months before the conflict) and Buk M1, (records says up to 30 units in all). Only ground attack Su-25 ,Su 24 and TU22m on surveillance missions were downed, the Su27s and brand new Su34 recorded frying over a Dozen of those AAM sites with no incident and ground troops captured the remaining. Bring practical points to the table and we shall agree. Better funded -yes, history of reliability-yes, costly platforms-yes, procurement based on political ties-yes! cost competitiveness-No! Viability for a politically opinionated country-No!
The Russians were not keen on replicating F22 type years back because it did not appear financially sustainable, rather they went in the direction of AAM systems and has a result they have the best AAM system in the world now . There is a lot of sense in fact and not much in sentiments Bring Facts to the table Sir
That argument holds little water. Russian forces were kilometers away, all they needed to do was cross the border, aerial refueling was not even required. If you lose two jets and one bomber in such a favourable terrain what chance does Russian airforce have against even a less formidable foe but 3000 miles across the atlantic. Yugoslavia, a Russian protege with advanced surface to air missiles delivered by Russia scored not even a hit on any Western fighter jet, not a single personnel was lost.
My point is in all engagements with Western aircrafts Russia has always been on the losing side. The F-22 25 years on still has no peer now or even for the forseeable future. A combination of better training, better funding, continious combat experience and a decade lead in avionics and precision weaponry makes American fighters far ahead of anything Russia can hope to build.
I rest my case, just for the records, No su-27 was involved in Serbian Wars,Yugoslavia had already been decimated by internal civil war that saw its military split into over 4 factions along ethnic lines. It also only had a squadron of Mig29 ( its front line fighters were Mig21 Bis). Bulk of these had already been overused( and lacked spare and maintenance due to fragmented military and continual use for over 6 years of civil war and some were also lost on ground to rebel activity). It was pitted against NATO with over Modern 150 Warplanes funded by the richest countries. 10Serbian Mig 29 was lost in all-half on ground-not shot down,2 to NATO SAM over Bosnia(only 3-4 were lost in actual combat),1 USF16 ,1US F117 stealth,2 German F4s(strongly denied but acknowledged by Russian observers) , were also shot down by Serbian missile battery-UK Harriers returned to base in Italy damaged, a few tomahawks were also shot down( conflicting records on how many), a few NATO helix(2?) also crashed due to faults and BBC reported 1 F15 lost in unlear circumstances-FACTs my Brother, what ever you opinion lets look at the FACTS
Way to go tell am F- 15 has never been lost in battle that’s a joke find your fact b4 posting
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Dude your argument holds no water. F-22 reaches mach 2.7 without afterburners, its situation awareness is unrivalled. Airborne it can act as an Awacs E 3 Sentry aircraft, sweeping an area more than twice the range, locating targets and simultaneously taking on 12 fighters while still being stealthy. Iranian pilots found out the hard way.
The USAF is the only airforce in the world that has its own “Space Wing”. As of this writing the U.SAF has 63 sattelites in orbit. Its the only airforce in the world with a global precision attack capability. Global Precision Attack is the ability to hold at riske or strike rapidly and persistently, with a wide rannge of munitions, any target and to create swift, decisive, and precise effects across multiple domains. Does Russia have anything close to the B2 Spirit bomber or B1 Lancer? When you say Russian fighters are the best back it up with operational history and proven capability.
broda u are jst shouting america.usaf dat,who first developed d concept of radar invadin aircraft.even if d american aircraft are d best i jst prefer d russians.oga oje pls wot’s d different btw yf-23 and yf-22
I agree without needed any reservation that US airforce is the largest, most funded and most capable(fact), I disagree that Western Airframe are the best available-depending on what you mean by the “best”-important correction-F22 supercruise at M1.8 without afterburners( it is not correct that F22 can cruise at M2.7 without afterburners,T50 super cruise speed range is classified),T50 has better range(nearly twice F22) and any platform can be configured to serve as AWACS including even Boeing 747, and T50 has more weapons capacity also- However This does not mean one is really better than the other!
The T 50 is not as Stealthy as the Raptor and please don’t tell me every platform can be configured to serve as Awacs. You are comparing an operational fighter with one still on the drawing board. I have asked time and again to cite combat experiences of Russian fighters against Western Ones. Its crazy for you believe that a country who’s airforce budget alone is %90 that of the entire Russian defence spending and has an Independent Space wing with an RnD sector that attracts the best minds from all over the world will not be able to field fighters better than a Moribound Russian aviation defense sector. The F-22 have no competitor, the T-90 is not even nearly operational and even after 25 years of trying to catch up still admits her Stealth characteristics and profile will be no where near her rival the Raptor. Typical Russians will try to compensate for this by unecessary speed and manaourvability which in a real battle field scenario will not compensate enough for her defects. This is why every Russian fighter that has gone one on one with an American fighter seldom survives. Just today a Syrian Mig 20 was shut down by a Turkish F-16.
mig 20?abeg o and hw do u knw dat d russians are 25yrs behind,not every1 like’s to brag.d west are bragados
My personal opinion – American aircraft are generally better. However the only aircraft that come close to holding their own and surviving in any encounter with American jets are the SU 27/30s series of aircraft. The record is almost unbelievable in how they are able to out manoeuvre smart missiles locked onto them by F 15s, F16s and FA/18 jets and run away.
I however don’t think other aircraft from western nations aircraft enjoy the distinction of being able to scare the Sukhois away like that. …bring it on Tornado ADV, Rafale, Eurofighter.
Thank you for trying to inject a dose of reality into the mix
READ
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/689025/posts
Oga Oje, what has our straightforward quest for attainable Su-30 and JF17 Thunder jets got to do with this eulogy of the F15 and F22 which are not up for sale to ANY African country? How does it materially advance our quest for contemporary jets for the NAF? Spending all this time in an attempt to derail a noble national aspiration on account of Giffen goods which are not on the rack now or later for the NAF? Why do you so often get caught up in such adulatory chatter about what our country demonstrably and decidedly has no part or interest in, feigning ignorance of the reality and getting fixated on flights of fancy? You are still waiting to be sold the F15 which no European country operate? Anyway, is this “my whistle is bigger than yours” hype the thrust of the current thread?
Nigeria are possibly looking to acquire JF17s and Su-30s…not F15s and F22 Raptors (because they will never sell those to us)? Can’t you internalise that and move on to realistic aspirations?Do you appreciate the enormity and seriousness of what is being discussed in this thread? What do we care about the F22 which is not in our loop and will never be on offer to us?
Kai..na wa o.
Oga beeg you once posted something on India wanting to help Nigeria Modernise her Air Defences ( Akash Medium Range Missiles). SOmeone made mention of it again, do you have any info as regards it? Sorry to derail
No additional details on the Akash ADMs handy, Oga Chyde.
Oga Beegz- well said and spot on. I could not have said it better and to be honest was really irritated by the last couple of exchanges. How does it advance the course of our military? There are plenty of other forums for those who want to eulogise the characteristics of the F-15 or F-22 fighters to go to. Such comments are TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to the thrust of this blog which is blog is primarily geared towards the Nigerian military and realistic platform acquisiton options open to it. I say this with all due respect. Guess you might have to give serious consideration to editing/screening comments before they are posted.
*GEJ: Hello Barrack, top of the day to you. Just a quick one (my credit is finishing). How does one get a few of your top of the line F22 Raptor? I know how expensive it is, I just want 3 pieces, with spares and pilot training. Cash down.
BARRACK: Ermm Good luck, let me think of the words to describe the situation to you.
So it’s like this, It is easier for a camel to enter…. no… not even that , it is easier for me to give you Michele and my lovely daughters than to even begin to IMAGINE how I will even CONTEMPLATE beginning to start THINKING about even trying to CONSIDER selling the F22 Raptor to Nigeria.
oga Are I saluteoooo Sanu da aike
Hahaahah oga @Are James I don laff fall for table.
Oga Beegs I think we need to open a New Thread as regards this due to one major Reason, We learn each day and no one has the Right answers but we can give right advices and the rest is up to our decision Makers.
1. Oga Oje asked for Proof of Experience of the Sukhoi’s then let us Enlighten him and pit it Against the Falcon Series F-15, F-16, F-18 Super Hornet and F-22 Raptors
2. Let us also Pit da Sukhoi Series Against Oda European platforms and Give Contemporary Examples against West, East and Middle Belt Avionics and Weapons
Why do these?
So we can lay to Rest Collectively this Issue once and for all. Remember we are doing this for our Airforce so they can have a Short Term Procurement plan, a Medium Term Procurement Plan and Long Term In-House Development Plan and hopefully from this Debate per say we are able to learn from each other, Even if we end up still disagreeing we can and would have covered every basic Aerodynamic Learning needed for Procurement Decisions so we can truly have a Strong Airforce.
But I would say this : I want to see Sukhoi’s Flying in Kaduna come 16th April at Air Expo 2014 nothing less Nothing more! I would be going who would join me?
Nigeria is America’s largest trading partner in Africa. Last year we outstripped Iran to become to second largest producer of crude in OPEC. They’ve given to us free of charge two Warships, what makes you think we cannot get the F-16 if we requested for it? We have the financial muscle to do it, and unlike Egypt they will not be saddled with the burden of providing aid to Nigeria to the tune of $11 billion a year.
Oga Tope, much respect for your comments. However I respectfully disagree.
This blog is not really the forum to debate the merits or otherwise of the Su-30 vis-a-vis the F/A-18 Super Hornet, F-22 or the F15. There are plenty of other websites/forums as well as specialist magazines out there where one can get this information/engage in such debates.
Please I BEG YOU ALL, let’s not derail the main thrust of this thread/blog with ‘academic and irrelevant’ comparisons/considerations. No African Country operates or is realisticaly likely to operate the F-22, the F/A-18 or even the F-15 – so of what relevance are the characteristics of these aircraft to our NAF/defence planners?
Currently, the Nigerian Air Force is possibly in the hunt for the JF-17 Thunder ( block 2) and hopefully the Su-30K aircraft as our main air-superiority fighter. The airforce could even be looking at the possibility of obtaining Pakistani F-7PGs (which are being phased out and replaced by the JF-17s in their fleet). The point is WE REALLY DO NOT KNOW what aircraft type the NAF intends to purchase and WE ARE NOT THE DECISION MAKERS. These are the cold and hard facts- unpalatable as they may seem.
What we should be focusing on are the possible fighter aircraft (new or second -hand) that are realistically available to the NAF, the cost benefit analysis of such aircraft type as well as other relevant criteria such as; (i) the merits/demerits of each of these aircraft type, (ii) possibility of techonology transfer, (iii) the ease of pilot/maintainance crew training, (iv)- the domestication of full (PDM) maintainance/possible technical partners , (v) the potential weapons mix (missiles, cannons and bombs) and availibity of same/possiblity of manufacture in-country, (vi) ECM suites and most importantly (vii) ensuring that whatever platform that is purchased will not be subject to possible future foreign sanctions/embargos which will limit operational servicabily/avaiablity. This list is by no means exhaustive. I would respectfully urge my fellow cybergens to go back and read the earlier entry of @Augustine on this thread- quite realistic and factual.
It is our sincere desire/hope that information on this blog will be read by our defence planners and those who make the purchasing decisions and that the information on this blog will be found to be useful and thus be taken into consideration to enable an informed decision to be taken regarding our defence acquisitions. Let’s also remember that these officials who read this blog are very busy people and thus It certainly does not help our cause to have extraneous/irrelevant material on this blog – a blog which we all want to have taken seriously.
Please gentlemen-in our postings, lets stay focused and on point. Thank you.
Oga Yags,thank you very much you have said it all!
Seconded.
Fellow cyber generals,flight activities over TAC very unusual, 2 fighter jets flew out of TAC today both carrying drop-tanks,for sometime now or if I am not mistaken,I have not seen either the Alpha jet or the F-7NI Airguard with drop-tanks!Beeg Eagle bloggers be on the watchout at Abuja,Kaduna,Lagos,Kano,Makurdi and Kainji areas respectively.
Oga gbash, you mean you couldn’t identify the jets? Are you saying that they were neither A-jets nor F-7N jets?
The drop tanks give it away. These are the possibilities:
1.Alpha Jets or L39ZAs on surveillance/patrol (more fuel is reqd. for surveillance missions)
2. F7NIs on a mission outside our borders.
3. New type of small combat aircraft (example L159ALCA) on surveillance/patrol within our borders.
4. New type of large combat aircraft on a mission outside our borders.
Oga Obix, I have confirmed the jets,I saw them clearly today,they are the F-7 fighters heading Northwards.
Still confirm wetin wan enta all dis new hangars dem – MDGR, MKD, MNA, SOK, BEN, ‘secret place’ in the NE, KNJ, LRN.
Why is there never a combat footage of our airforce in action? Also I have been curious as to the kind of ordnance used by the Alpha jets. We see headlines of Boko Haram bases and convoys being bombed by the Nigerian airforce. What kind of bombs? Freefall iron bombs? Or air to ground missiles and rockets.
Why would F7s need drop tanks for a local mission? Must be extensive surveillance within or outside our borders some very good high speed cameras and other gear on board.
http://saharareporters.com/news-page/inside-boko-haram-enclave-former-female-boko-haram-captive-dailytrust-newspaper
Gen Been,I have not confirmed any thing about the new hangars yet,but we will still find out sooner or later.
OGA GBASH
Make ua find out o! APRIL is around the corner, these hangers that are springing up freshly painted. Coupled with the sad news from OGA OZED that we either got rid/ sold some of the ineffective M-34C TRAINERS means we either in for a surprise in terms of HELIOS most likely or a crushing disappointment in terms of planes jf-17 thunder or the SU27/ 30. ( Please GOD hear my humble prayer).
Guys! Guys!! Guys!!! -Please relax- one would think that we were watching Nigeria involved in a penalty shoot -out in the 2014 world cup finals against Brazil, with one outstanding penalty – which if scored would win us the cup. Let’s try and chill on this feverish speculation- all will be revealed in due season as there is nothing hidden under the sun.
LOL!!!
I am actually partially satiated that the F7s are flying. No matter what the popular negative hype says, our F7NI are the best 3.5 generation combat aircrafts around in the world today and Nigeria would soon master them and make a workhorse of them.
It seems those jets were actually on surveillance from makurdi up to Nassarawa, Plateau,Bauch,Borno and Adamawa states.According to the Deputy Governor of Benue State,Stephen Lthe NAF after carrying out surveillance,they discovered that the crisis between Fulani herds men and the Tiv people is actually the work of insurgents from the NE.They follow bush path formed by cattle,check a map of Nigeria or use google earth to see everything.
Please o cyber generals,how can some body use google earth to view a place live, two to three days or a week ago?Which version of the software?
Depty Govnor, Stephen Lawani of Benue State
Google earth.is the. Link,then zoom in on nigeria mind you it takes a lot of memory. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network
Oga Jimmy, the point is that the Deputy Governor wants us to believe that we can use google earth as a ‘web cam’ or cctv and even see a recording of what happened days earlier.
He is just plain study.this. based on everything we have read and studied got nothing to with boko haram but a very real and violent struggle. Between the fulani herdsmen/ cattle herders and their sponsors and the hausa/ settlers / farmers/ minority groups.The sad thing about this depty gov in his warped thinking is he is not alone.This ongoing problem is deep seated and once again the f.g. is arriving late to the party. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network
@Jimmy
The question we need to ask is why a century old intertribal conflict fought with bows, arrows and dame guns has suddenly become one with where AK47s, explosives and high calibre weapons are used. The BH influence should not be quickly dismissed.
@Are James, NAF F-7NI Jets 3.5G capability yes, radar range approx 42km, missile range 20km, are still preferred to the dead Jaguars with cannon for air to air engagement.
A living dog is better than a dead lion.
Well the JF-17 Thunder will scare even France and Cameroon combined threat.
F-7NI is still better than grounded MiG-21 MF.
USMAN S from PAKISTAN wrote in to say :
I am from Pakistan and just came across this very interesting debate. Just wanted to point out a few things. Most of you most likely already know that Pakistan & Nigeria have a military relationship that goes back decades with many Nigerian officers trained in Pakistan. The most recent cooperation has been on the F-7NI’s when Nigerian Air Force asked for PAF support after suffering multiple mishaps. PAF sent few officers who observed the Nigerian Air Force maintenance procedures and helped in troubleshooting and streamlining the logistics and maintenance support – this helped in reducing/eliminating the F-7 related mishaps.
JF-17 is a good option for Nigeria considering the cost, weaponry and support it knows it can rely on. The cost often quoted is US$20-25 million based on the avionics package. I believe it is the weaponry that could be the best and most attractive part of the package. It might even be possible for Pakistan to supply the air launched RAAD cruise missile as part of the weapons package along with numerous LGB’s and Chinese origin BVR missiles (SD-10).
There is even the possibility of having the anti-radiation missiles (MAR-1) and anti-ship missiles (CM-400 & C-802) with JF-17 if Nigerian Air Force thinks they fit their overall plan.
Al-Zarrar as already noted is just an upgrade for T-59/T69 series of tanks. Pakistan had too many of these T-models and could not afford to replace all of them with T-80UD’s or Al-Khalid’s so decided to upgrade about 600 of them to Al-Zarrar standard.
Upgrade includes different armour, 125mm gun, semi automatic loader and Battle Field Management System allowing the tank commanders to share data with each others and rear HQ.
Is the ALCM RAAD cruise missile actally available for sale immediately? This weapon would add a powerful long range non nuclear strategic element to Nigeria’s defence options . The Chinese anti ship missile I believe is already on Nigeria’s wish list but I don’t know about anti radar missiles.
The offer is a sweet one,we can not afford to miss this Golden opportunity,as the famous Pirates saying goes “take everything and leave nothing behind”,
Celebration time cyber generals,enough beer today to wash our Tucano ground attack planes.
oga gbash abeg hw many airframe did we get frm brazil
Oga giles,I only 2 sneaking into TAC one after the other.
Oga giles,I only 2 sneaking into TAC one after the other.Very beautiful birds!
I meant “I only saw 2 …”
i weep for boko haram in advance
I no fit shout
A bit of necessary digression Sir, looking at our trade balance sheet and following the principle of buying from trading partners coupled with supply capacity, we might end up buying FC1, not JF17 ( same Aircraft but different country of origin) JF17 in the real sense will not be available till next year and PAC manufacturing capacity for export is very limited-bearing in mind that they still have over 100 units of unfilled order to PAF, PAC got $100m this year to upgrade manufacturing facility, but that does not appear to be enough. Chengdu on the other hand has a much larger capacity and can fill much larger orders in short space of time. Whether it is bought from China of Pakistan- both countries own the trade mark and would somehow benefit form exports.
More So, new abound that PLAN airforce will certainly induct FC1 ( 20 sold to Myanmar under the condition that PLAN will induct the Aircraft); if PLAN inducts FC1 in great numbers ( as opposed to JL9 that has just been developed, completely remodeled of J7), it would improve marketability/desirability greatly.
Our trade with China is over 500 times($13b to $60m) our trade value with Pakistan. concerning the T55 upgrades, we attempted it in the past in small quantity ( possibly because the conditions are too bad to even worth the upgrade). We might consider a haul of more recent variants of T72 from Ukraine/Russia/Serbia/Czech e.t.c that is locally upgraded here in Nigeria-Upgrade should be total from Engine to Amour and FCS
A bit of necessary digression Sir, looking at our trade balance sheet and following the principle of buying from trading partners coupled with supply capacity, we might end up buying FC1, not JF17 ( same Aircraft but different country of origin) JF17 in the real sense will not be available till next year and PAC manufacturing capacity for export is very limited-bearing in mind that they still have over 100 units of unfilled order to PAF, PAC got $100m this year to upgrade manufacturing facility, but that does not appear to be enough. Chengdu on the other hand has a much larger capacity and can fill much larger orders in short space of time. Whether it is bought from China of Pakistan- both countries own the trade mark and would somehow benefit form exports.
More So, new abound that PLAN airforce will certainly induct FC1 ( 20 sold to Myanmar under the condition that PLAN will induct the Aircraft); if PLAN inducts FC1 in great numbers ( as opposed to JL9 that has just been developed, completely remodeled of J7), it would improve marketability/desirability greatly.
Our trade with China is over 500 times($13b to $60m) our trade value with Pakistan. concerning the T55 upgrades, we attempted it in the past in small quantity ( possibly because the conditions are too bad to even worth the upgrade). We might consider a haul of more recent variants of T72 from Ukraine/Russia/Serbia/Czech e.t.c that is locally upgraded here in Nigeria-Upgrade should be total from Engine to Amour and FCS
*PLAAF
What’s going on in Abuja? Shooting around SSS hq. Are they trying to spring the BH guy?
Buy Su-27/30 Flanker with no technology transfer, buy JF-17 Thunder with technology transfer. My opinion is NAF, copy NN, they bought P18N/F91 with technology transfer that even Egypt and South Africa do not have today.
It’s up to NAF to buy a jet for pride, or buy a jet for value today and tomorrow. Nigeria has a chance to join the league of jet fighter manufacturers worldwide through the JF-17 Thunder.
Many NATO countries fly only single engine air superiority jets too….the F-16.
A well trained NAF JF-17 Thunder pilot will shoot down a poorly trained Ugandan SU-30 Flanker pilot with ease, both have BVR capability.
Angolan air force was flying SU-27 jet and Savimbi rebels were shooting down a whole flanker jet with shoulder held MANPAD missile.
Dear NAF, anything una wan do, go do am, me I don talk my own.
Cyber generals,the NAF TUCANOES are at home!They were sneaking them into TAC one by one from 11:48am,I saw 2 today with ash colour like the Alpha jets!
Thank God ooo, Oga Gbash10
This is the first time you have come clean without setting off chaff-and-decoy mechanisms, Uncle Coding 🙂
Knowing your familiarity with airframes and air warfare, the fact that the NAF are indeed in the hunt for ALX Super Tucano COIN planes, I would be comfortable with your categorical assertion. After all, they are bound to be seen at the Air Expo 2014 in a few weeks’ time.
Good timing between quest and delivery. Perhaps they had anticipatory approval and were building the aircraft long before the November 2013 report which I posted on this blog.
Something similar happened in 2012 when OCEA FPB 72 Mk.II patrol craft underwent sea trials during the first week of March whereas the actual FY 2012 FG budget which approved their procurement, only got signed on March 15th, 2012. That means the construction of the FPB 72s probably commenced as early as 2011. That was the only reason why they were available for sea trials early in March 2012.
NAF finally witnessing consequential growth…COMBAT assets, not those A109 taxis which bring little to a battle space as presently configured
2013-2014 shopping list
– four Mi-17s
– six Mi-171Sh Terminator assault helics
– three Mi-35P attack helos
– six Mi-35M night attack helos
– ALX Super Tucano COIN beasts
Strong possibility
– six Su-30K(MKN) air superiority jets
– squadron(s) of JF17 Thunder multirole jets
Life just got tougher for the BH goons.
Hehehe…General Beeg,I almost missed the 1st one,as it flew in from Abuja through the Southern air-corridor,I was not sure,however,when I saw the 2nd plane flying in also from Abuja through the Northern air-corridor,I started shouting TUCANO,TUCANO,TUCANO…!!! my friend then asked me why i was shouting,I then pointed at the plane in the sky with excitement.
BH are in trouble ooo!
I just wrote this week that we should get Super Tucanos on lease or buy second hand if brand new will take time to build, the need is urgent against Boko. One Super Tucano will fly from Bakassi to Maiduguri twice non-stop without refuelling and armed with cannon to hit any Bokos during the patrol sortie.
Please can anyone tell me by how much an SU-30 Flanker is more maneuverable than JF-17 Thunder?
2013 Air show of JF-17 Thunder shows the pilots or the aircraft, or both have improved and it should score 80% if SU-30 Flanker scores 90% in maneuverability in dog fights.
What is the big difference really? Cobra movement and stand still moments, do I always need those in dogfights? Many USAF and NATO jets cannot do those maneuvers too.
400 km radar? I see my enemy 400 km away, does that mean I will shoot him down? Practical war history tells us Ethiopian/Eritrean Ukranian/Russian mercenary pilots had much difficulty shooting down each other at a mere 60 km BVR.
I can have one mini AWACS find 400 km targets for 20 JF-17 Thunders. Thunder has near 100 km radar and near 100 km new PL-12 BVR missiles with mach 4 speed.
Or am I now taking rubbish? Please tell me if I am off point.
Okay Beeg guys Flanker lovers you win, say 6 SU-30 mixed with 18 JF-17, fair deal for NAF ?
Welcome Super Tucano, go bring me the heads of 1,000 Bokos, each one in a brown calabash !
.
The mix of assets that rumours say we are planning to operate in the next few years is the best combination for a regional power like Nigeria.
Air dominance – SU -30 (also very good long range strike)
Multi role – JF 17 and F7 NI (don’t ever under estimate the F7NI)
Within-Border COIN – Alpha Jet, L-39ZA, Super Tucano
(Super Tucano offers some 4th gen capability e.g data link et.c in a subsonic airframe)
Surveillance – ATR -42
Maritime Attack – MB 339CD (this a/c also has capabilities for within-border COIN)
– About three different types attack capable helicopters
This would be the fastest procurement cycle time I have ever observed with the Nigeria Air force.
Obviously crated in weeks ago and assembled at god-knows-where.
Not a surprise at all but still a great news- Deal was logically sealed since Brazilian President came to town and the fact that Embraer is a top runner in the race for supply of medium lift civilian jets in proposed FG Aviation intervention fund. Tucanos are selling like hot cakes and several assembly kits would be regularly manufactured-probably in serial production. These are rugged easy to maintain and cheap- our haul should not be less than two dozens, I think the A-jets are going home, we might be looking at the last upgrade. On capability, I believe that CCIP is the most important capability now which should be inclusive by default.
$500 per hour operating cost is to me a key consideration. I see Nigeria buying more than a hundred of these in the next few years, the peculiar local security challenges will raise the demand for them.
CCIP is good from the point of view of dropping ordinance accurately on bad guys in the midst of potential collateral civilians damage all around the target. Just the rare ability to stay aloft at the right height and sped to track slow or fast moving ground targets at anytime of day or night and respond appropriately with ordinance while keeping other vital assets of the national security architecture updated via videos, photos and other data would be a big boost.
*collateral damage*
Hurray!
I noticed that in the entire discussion, there was no mention of emphasis on situation awareness and data linking, which is actually an important force multiplier capability. Even old fighters, if supported by superior situation awareness and information link with other fighters, radar and support aircraft can have better advantage against modern fighters like the vaunted Su-27/30 series. For air forces with limited financial capability like Nigeria and the Philippines, this is very important to maximize its limited number of fighters and could change the way air warfare is conducted in their zone of operations.
There was an article recently regarding the sudden surge of high tech combat aircraft in African countries. The question is, do these air forces have enough resources to competently operate these aircraft? If not, then these fighters will be nothing but economic burdens that cannot fight effectively as marketed by the Russians. Nigeria must learn from these, and maximize the capability of its own air force.
BTW, the Philippines just signed a contract to purchase 12 F/A-50 Fighting Eagles, with the 1st 2 units scheduled for delivery by 2015. Air Defense Radar systems are getting a boost by either the Lockheed Martin TPS-77 or IAI-Elta ELM-2288 to replace old tech. And the PAF is already planning for the next multi-role fighter suitable to its needs, with the Gripen NG being the early favorite among pilots and defense planners. Emphasis is given to networked capability between aircraft and radar systems.
Max (maxdefense.blogspot.com)
@Max, that will be the next stage in our capability, if not already being done as our military is very secretive, sometimes unnecessarily so.
Very good situational awareness coupled with a good data-link and controlled from an AWAC platform or similar ground control station is pivotal to a successful air campaign.
I just hope our air force and indeed other services, have their heads screwed on and are on the ball with these requirements especially when it comes to tri-service operations.
Oga Beeg, just saw this on Punch Newspapers this morning. I think u might find it interesting. http://www.punchng.com/news/fg-okays-new-fighter-jets-for-air-force/