WHEN NIGERIAN NAVY AND CHINESE PLA NAVY SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDOS TRAINED TOGETHER ON ANTI-PIRACY OPERATIONS IN LAGOS, MAY 2014

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BEEG EAGLE -perspectives of an opinionated Nigerian male with a keen interest in Geopolitics, Defence and Strategic Studies
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70 Responses to WHEN NIGERIAN NAVY AND CHINESE PLA NAVY SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDOS TRAINED TOGETHER ON ANTI-PIRACY OPERATIONS IN LAGOS, MAY 2014

  1. Blueblood says:

    Very exciting times. The Chinese are there to fill the vacuum that the West has failed to fill. Nice one.

  2. tim says:

    This picture was taken in navy town…..

  3. beegeagle says:

    I thought so as well. Looks like some place around that heavily fortified armoury but then again, it could be the area around Camp Apochi

  4. Triggah says:

    At the just concluded 6th annual warrior competition in Jordan the snow leopard commandos of China took first position. This competition is held to rate the special unit of world forces. The Chinese are good too with all those money and new toys pouring in.

  5. CHYDE says:

    Nice one

  6. Tope says:

    Can anyone make out their weapon? Nigeria I can see wield the tavors jejeli, theirs look like M-16 carbines I might be very wrong

  7. Bigbrovar says:

    Seems the sudanese have adopted same rifle for their “Future Sudanese Soldier” System http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/03/24/sudanese-future-soldier-system/

  8. peccavi says:

    The Annual Warrior Competition I would take somewhat with a pinch of salt, none of the established (UK, US, Russia, France, Israel etc) nations send their core SF there, simply because it exposes them and their tactics and scrutiny and identification.
    Its essentially a commercial venture to advertise the training facilities (which are really awesome), sponsored by weapons manufacturers. It is more for up and coming nations to showcase their SF, and learn new skills. The Chinese come first all the time, however competitions are not operations

    It would be interesting to know what Chinese unit this is

  9. jimmy says:

    I haven’t heard of the CHINESE ( s.f.) in action, The last known battle that the Chinese has engaged in was the Chinese/ Vietnamese war correct ?

  10. Augustine says:

    The deadliest special forces in the world when it comes to terrain endurance, survival, and close contact, hand to hand firefights as well as ‘stealth strikes’ against pockets of enemy infantry are from my personal observation…

    Chinese, South Koreans, North Koreans and Japanese. These are battle tested countries who have engaged in wars from centuries ago till the last modern war they fought in the 1940s to 1950s. They are the toughest human beings on earth and masters at stealthy penetration and silent killing of the enemy.

    Nepalese are the world’s best infantry as we hear it said, but not the best special forces., Also reputed to be the bravest and hardest to defeat, said to never surrender.

    In Africa, the special forces of Algeria stands above every other country, Egypt comes next and then I would say Nigeria. The others in Africa are just a crowd, the other country that had great special forces is the old SADF of Apartheid South Africa, but to me, their skill is more of long range reconnaissance than surgical strikes involving special physical skills. Also, they succeeded against an inexperienced Cuban army that has many youths as conscripts and Cuba’s war history was that of zero experience, hence easy to trick them if you have war experience whih I think gave the SADF a big advantage. If South African recces were deployed against an experienced army like Ethiopia, how would they have fared? Still superb? I don’t think so. However, I guess about 95% of the famous South African recces have retired from service.

    Technology, equipment, and current combat experience makes the American, British, and Israeli special forces seem to be the top 3 rated in this world.

    • doziex says:

      Oga augustine, remember, the cubans trained, advised and fought for the ethiopians against the then US backed somalia under siad Barre in the Ogaden war.

      Castro’s army was no paper tiger. They trained according go Soviet doctrine. And trained , mentored and fought in Ethiopia, angola and Nicaragua.
      When they faced SADF, they were at their peak.
      Which also indicates that the SADF were no slouches either.

  11. doziex says:

    Yeah Oga jimmy,
    In 1978/79, the vietnamese fresh out of running the Americans out of town, also beat up on the PLA.
    The vietnamese were emerging from a decade, of being supplied by the soviets, and at times, the Chinese.
    The had also inherited billions of dollars of American wasted effort on the ARVN. ( the south vietnamese army).
    But we all know, that since then, the PLA has more than rebounded.

    Their Achilles heel as you said, is their dearth of combat experience.

    However, they have the best training and equipment, money can buy.

    And their war colleges try to incorporate what they can from present day battlefields.

    But sooner or later, the Chinese are going to have to throw some muscle around.

    Especially in africa, where they have billions of dollars worth of investments, under threat.

    They got billions in investments, trapped in libya. That is in a civil war.

    They got 20 billion tied up in south sudan oil fields, and the dinka’s and the nuers still have plenty appetite for war.
    They got money tied up in chadian oil fields, and their pipelines through Cameroon. And our very own BH may complicate matters in Cameroon.
    They got billions in Nigeria, and we all know how stable nigeria is.

    HMMM, if africa doesn’t get it’s security act together, we may soon be playing host, to the expeditionary prowess of the PLA.

    • jimmy says:

      hmm you dey talk true, this one we fit gree upon o.
      she you dey kampe about them drones?

      • doziex says:

        Egbon,
        I have been in contact with some young officers in our armed forces.
        Bottom line, they don’t feel comfortable about the arrangement.
        I was clear about what information I am looking for, you know, stuff you can find in the Air forces monthly magazine, and other defense related publications, NOT espionage stuff.
        So I sent them the link of this blog, and maybe they would be future contributors.
        But references was definately made to a drone sourced from the Chinese.
        I expected to get more info, unfortunately this trail seems to have run cold.

      • jimmy says:

        Well oga doziex e be like say una don answer my question .fact say them dey uncomfortable mean say they don get am it be like say when the oga on top come last month, them bring something come.This nah the first real confirmation.
        It be like there is a big storm brewing we just have to wait and see.Anyhow as you dey stateside this wahala for this deserter and the fab 5 nah wah o!

  12. peccavi says:

    The Ghurkas are excellent infantry but I wouldn’t say they are the best, to be honest there is a certain level of training and experience that makes such discussions moot.
    Same with SF, before you can compare SF you have to compare their missions and training.
    In terms of North Africa, I agree the Algerians have the combat experience, as do Morocco. Egypt hasn’t really been on any major operations for years.
    Sub Saharan, I rate Zimbabwe higher than RSA, they have recent combat experience in COIN, combined arms battles, jungle fighting, urban warfare etc. Their fights in Congo were epic. Classic combined arms battles.
    Uganda, Rwanda, Ethiopia not too bad but Rwanda unfortunately is still married to their guerilla roots I believe.

    China’s shakara in the South China Sea will soon get them into trouble, this is the problem with being a large nation tangling with smaller ones. You cannot afford to lose face or lose battles.
    Their last external operation against Vietnam was a spanking but like other nations that are trying to find their feat they are using Africa as a proving ground, they are deployed in Mali and Sudan and are using it as a way to get operational experience.
    Ironically so is Germany, although they had Afghanistan (which showed them major issues with their forces) they are now quietly deploying large forces on peace keeping and peace support in Africa. This gives their troops and commanders operational experience.
    A resurgent Russia, a resurgent Germany and a strong Poland once again allied with major western powers makes Europe, with nationalism on the rise and collapsing economies once again a very interesting place for the forseeable future. But I digress

  13. ifiok umoeka says:

    Nigerian SF 3rd? Which one? SBS, Army SF or Airforce SF? How old are they? What’s their selection like? What’s their training like? What of support? U see, SpecOps successes are more than a team of Alpha males spraying hot metals into others and blowing thing up? Support or the lack of it can mess things up for u!

  14. ifiok umoeka says:

    Training without testing makes u unsure (u will only know when u have been @ the field, real battle can’t be simulated …yet! Testing without training will cost u so much! U’ll learn but the knowledge means nothing if u don’t survive it! Thus training and testing in the field makes a great SF! Put the sentiments away!

    • doziex says:

      Yeah oga ifiok, that was NA’s problem in a nut shell.

      NA in the last 20 yrs has been in 3 major counterinsurgency wars, but as a conventionally trained force, NA applied conventional tactics not contain asymmetric wars resulting in high casualties, which was compounded by the NA brass decision to hide the mistakes/embarrassment.
      Somewhere in the midst of the niger delta insurgency, NA fully embraced the counterinsurgency concept, and began to train units abroad, and in nigeria with isreali PMCs.
      Now the spec ops chaps, that are going to emerge from the BH conflict, would be close to world class.
      Their only handicap may be the lack of helicopters for them to become proficient in heliborne Ops.

      Training + equipment+ experience = excellence.

      • jimmy says:

        May I add + failures to your list= excellence.The absolute failures of the first chechen wars taught the russians a bitter painful lesson,georgia tiny little georgia added hot pepper to the wounds,by the time ukraine came around they were ready down to their fake uniforms.. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

  15. Augustine says:

    Oga Ifiok, we are not talking about regular infantry as you know the topic already, we are talking about special forces where experience is not the only criteria for ‘ranking’. A very experienced but less trained and less equipped special forces cannot match a less experienced but better trained and better equipped special forces, technology and advanced equipment advantage can make the less experienced special forces defeat the more experienced side.

    Nigeria special forces of today are more experienced than Japanese special forces of today, but will the Nigerians stand up to the Japanese? Technology alone will kill Nigeria, how do we face Japanese special forces that detects the enemy using man portable ground early warning radar when a Nigerian special force guy has only seen such equipment on internet? Superior technology is a killer any time.

    Algerian special forces have 11 years combat experience against a much bigger and more powerful insurgency than Boko Haram. Algerian SF are also better equipped and better trained than Nigerian SF. Egyptian SF are close to Algerians level except for current combat experience.

    I won’t post videos here to prove my points google is free for all. Thanks.

    • peccavi says:

      Og, any thing the ,military tells you is man portable is definitely not. Japanese SF might be better trained and equipped but having less live missions will be at a disadvantage.
      Operations are the true test.

      • asorockweb says:

        Thank you.
        I laugh as I try to imagine an SF operator with his man-portable radar, trying to be stealthy.

      • Bharat says:

        Gentleman, please look at the radar in the link.
        https://spotterrf.com/rbk.html

        Not contesting the theory of technology vs training vs experience. But, all SoF operations aren’t expeditionary assault in nature. What you have to say about recon mission and laying ambush in transit/ infiltration corridor? Can the above radar help?

      • Are James says:

        Clutter is a problem I see here except there’s is such powerful in-built data processing that eliminates thick vegetation, heavy rainfall, dense fog at high altitudes.

  16. peccavi says:

    Cool device, I guess it would need to be tested to be true, but by the time it is ruggedised and made soldier proof, it will be a heavy, lumpy, inconvenient dead weight, put it could be a useful device,

  17. Augustine says:

    @asorockweb you dey laugh? Me too I dey laugh at you.

    Bros you need to be exposed to latest special forces operational technology/equipments that you never dreamed existed, I live in the hub of technology and amazing things have been produced that Nigeria has not even smelled their aroma talk less of see them. I just gave the man portable radar example and there are many other advanced technological equipment that Nigeria will not even smell in the next 10 years to come.

    There are special forces eyeglasses that looks like normal sunglasses or medicated eyeglasses to you as a layman and it is loaded with micro chips that emit and receive signals, there are many human presence and human motion thermal sensors that are as small as your cell phone and do wonderful things.

    should I show you a tip of the iceberg? http://www.blighter.com/products/b202-mk-2-radar.html

    @asorockweb, you still they laugh at technology? I don’t think so.

    Bros, many things of this world in terms of technology have not reached the gate of Aso Rock, talk less of entering inside to be deployed or installed.

    @Peccavi a 16kg man portable radar is very light for what South African recces SF carried for months in the bush war against Angola, each recce carries up to 80kg. Also, many equipment you think are heavy for one man are dis-assembled into smaller pieces and carried by 2 to 3 men with ease.

    @Are james forget clutter when you are fighting against oyinbo man, they have conquered obstacles of nature to a very amazing extent, they have all weather mobile surveillance equipment.

    Japanese technology is ahead of American technology today, Japan is just silent and people think they are dumb.

    See gentlemen, I repeat, no experience of 4 years anti-Boko Haram war will make Nigerian special forces stand up to Japanese special forces, or even the Algerian special forces. I repeat, I wont post photos and videos on this thread just because I want to prove a point, the photos and videos are of foreign special forces and this thread is all about Nigerian military, and promoting Nigeria military positively in the world’s eye-view.

    Chinese, Koreans, Japanese are born killers and born stealth crawlers, for hundreds of years no countries of the world can match them….born assassins, born to endure the worst terrain and climatic hardship, born with natural survival techniques that beats imagination of men, born deadly marksmen, born hand to hand combat fighters armed and unarmed.

    The Americans dread the Japanese when it becomes man to man light weapons and light technology engagement at commando level.

    @Bharat, thank you for explaining to our friends here that special forces is not all about killing, it involves reconnaissance capabilities which today involves modern technology, and that is where Japanese SF will overshadow Nigerian SF completely, our boys and their low capacity equipment are no match for the Japanese, please let us put sentiments aside and face facts.

    SOUTH AFRICAN RECCES….FACTS AND FIGURES

    =========================================

    South African Special Forces Operators are known internationally by their nickname of “Recces” . This is the abbreviated form of the original name of the Special Forces Regiments – the Reconnaissance Regiments.

    In 2002, the South African Special Forces community celebrated the 30th anniversary of the establishment of a Special Forces capability in South Africa.

    By the conclusion of the war in Angola in 1988, out of the more than 100 000 persons who had applied to attend the Pre Selection interviews to attempt the Special Forces Operators Training Cycle, fewer than 480 had Qualified as Special Forces Operators. Out of this number, more than 80 Operators were killed in action during the Angolan war.

    By the beginning of 2003, fewer than 900 persons had ever Qualified as South African Special Forces Operators – fewer people than have ever successfully climbed Mount Everest. Out of this 900, more than 200 are deceased.

    Since the inception of Special Forces in South Africa, retired and serving Special Forces Operators observe the Saint Michael ceremony every September. Saint Michael is the protector and Patron Saint of Paratroopers, (every Qualified Operator is also a qualified Paratrooper), and this ceremony holds a special significance for Operators – especially during times of war.

    Throughout its history, the South African Special Forces has been a non-racial entity, and always had approximately equal numbers of black and white Qualified Operators.

    The most highly decorated Special Forces Operator to date is a black Operator from 5 Reconnaissance Regiment, who was awarded the Honoris Crux Gold in 1980.

    Despite the fact that Special Forces Operators are held to a much higher standard than the rest of the military when it comes to the awarding of medals, the South African Special Forces Operators is still the most highly decorated military entity in South Africa in respect of Bravery Medals since the end of the Second World War.

    All South African Special Forces Operators are highly qualified in all aspects of Land, Airborne and Seaborne skills, tactics, operations and deployments; and are able to and have Operated in virtually all possible terrain and climatic conditions.

    Special Forces Operators usually wore beards because they were unable to shave during their deployments. Shaving would waste precious water, and the enemy would be able to smell the shaving cream or soap if it was used. The beards also helped with camouflage of the face for both black and white Operators, as the sun would not reflect off a beard like it would off a shaven face. Similarly, the long hair as seen in some photographs of the Recces is as result of the long periods the Operators spent behind the enemy lines on operations, where they could not cut their hair.

    During war, Operators could expect to be physically deployed in actual operations against the enemy – primarily behind enemy lines – for an average of 9 to 10 months per year. Many Operators did this for 10 to 15 years.

    During war, the average weight of kit carried by Special Forces Operators is 60kg to 80kg. For long-distance deployments or Small Team operations, the average weight of kit carried is 100kg. The heaviest kit carried by Small Teams or Long deployment Operators is 130kg.

    An unofficial form of achievement within the South African Special Forces is when an Operator has completed a ” Gunston 500″ – named after the Surfing Championship. In the South African Special Forces context, a “Gunston 500″ entails conducting an operation behind enemy lines, where one walks for 500 kilometres or more with full kit. Many Operators, and most who took part in the Angolan war, have completed at least one or many ” Gunston 500’s” .

    During the Angolan war, 95% of all Special Forces operations were carried out behind enemy lines – over distances of anything from 10 km to 2000 km behind the enemy lines.

    During reconnaissance of enemy targets and fixed positions, Special Forces Reconnaissance Teams usually comprise 2 to 4 Operators. They conduct reconnaissance on enemy bases from direct line of sight positions right on the edge of the bases, and would penetrate inside the bases. These bases comprised and can comprise anything from several hundred up ten thousand plus enemy soldiers.

    During the Angolan war, Special Forces Reconnaissance Teams who entered into contact with enemy forces during reconnaissance missions, or during infiltration or exfiltration, had to conduct Escape and Evasion to escape capture or death. The distances over which E&E was applied in such situations – on foot – has varied from 20 km to over 1000km.

    Historically, more than 55% of all Operators were at one time or another Wounded in Action – some on multiple occasions. Very often, they dressed and treated their wounds themselves, and seldom left the field or operations for treatment.

    The South African Special Forces have the highest statistical Killed in Action ratio of any South African military unit since the battle of Delville Wood during the First World War. During the Angolan war, an Operator had statistically only a one in five chance of long-term survival, due to the nature, frequency and number of operations which they conducted.

    The first South African soldier Killed in Action at the beginning of the Angolan / former South West Africa war was a Special Forces Operator, and the last South African soldier Killed in Action at the end of the Angola / former South West Africa war was a Special Forces Operator.

    During the entire Angolan war, the total strength of all the Special Forces Regiments combined was never more than 200 to 250 Operators at any one time, due to their Killed in Action and Wounded in Action statistics, retirements and resignations.

    Special Forces Operators have never had equal of superior numbers to the enemy when attacking enemy fixed positions, and have always been heavily outnumbered in all their engagements.

    During the Angolan war, amongst the Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces against which South African Special Forces Operators worked were Russians, Ukrainians, East Germans and others. Also present were Cubans, North Koreans, Vietnamese, and various other Soviet-aligned forces. These included Regular Army, Air Force, Navy and Special Forces elements of these forces.

    During the later stages of the Angolan war, the Soviet Union diverted much of its war materiel meant for Afghanistan to Angola – including the most sophisticated Russian arms outside the Soviet Union itself. Angolan airspace became classified as the most hostile airspace in the world, with the Soviets having total air superiority for virtually the whole war. This meant that Special Forces Operators never had the possibility of re-supply, support or evacuation on the majority of their operations, and once they were in, they were completely and utterly alone until they returned.

    ==================================================================

    Anybody still thinks Nigerian special forces have done much apart from just killing Bokos?

    The sacrifice of Nigerian Special Forces who have died in service to our fatherland Nigeria is hereby appreciated, the above discussion speaks to the living and not the dead.

    Thank you all, and God bless the gallant Special Forces of Nigeria, Amen !

    • jimmy says:

      Oga Augustine Since you are half yoruba ,half hausa I will address you thus: rora koto soro. Nigerian special forces besides killing boko as you put have seen action “allegedly” in the following countries Ivory coast : courtesy of gbagbo ex prime minister refusing to take gej’s phone call. Mali: here there is no alleged on this blog we have a picture, and the president of france thanked Nigeria publicly. Niger delta: This is actually their home base need directions ask oga beeg. Cameroon: Enough said. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

    • asorockweb says:

      Oga Augustine,
      Initially I was laughing at the imagery that formed in my mind of offensive SF op units logging a radar around.

      Now? I am laughing at your latest post.

      I can see that you are an avid reader and writer – it’s like you just arrived at the well of knowledge and self expression.

      Some of the stuff you are describing are better called spy-gear or toys.

      • Bharat says:

        Statement
        “Initially I was laughing at the imagery that formed in my mind of offensive SF op units logging a radar around.”

        Reply,

        Gentleman I think ‘laughing’ is a strong word to use. Everyone has a perspective. We may not agree but, we can counter it.

        Unless we have among us active or retired service personnel, there will be some aspect of SoF operation which shall not be available in open literature.

        But, coming to insertion of SoF, there are of two types. ‘Hot’ insertion and ‘cold’ insertion. The terms self explanatory.

        And not, all insertion of SoF are foot insertion, for them to lug around heavy equipment. Vehicular insertion of SoF is also possible at a safe distance by chopper.

        So, apart from the fact that ‘offensive’ is a addition over and above your previous statement, even with or without it a operator may not have to ‘log’ around heavy equipment which aren’t meant for CQB operations. Even considering the fact stated by another poster that man-portable systems may not be exactly ‘man portable’.

        Below are links to few screen grabs of a rapid vehicular insertion and extraction of one such unit. Demonstration by ‘Garud’ SF of Indian Air Force at Iron Fest 2013 exercise.

      • asorockweb says:

        Thanks Bharat.

        My choice of words is appropriate, based on what has transpired.

        Man-portable radar systems are a novelty, and the idea of a SF op “logging” one around in an operation just brings a smile to my face.

        At the right opportunity, I shall expand on this.

  18. jimmy says:

    The ranking below in my opinion is based on ” what have you done lately” and how much your sf have been bloodied
    1. US SPECIAL FORCES oga peccavi will tell you junk the equipment and all the goodies, I am unimpressed by all that what impresses me is what and how they react when things go wrong no back up no problem, no airstrikes, then we have to fight our way out of it, The strike in somalia sows how far they have come and they attributed that to the bloody battles they fought and continue to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    2. U.K. SAS and RBS. This is grudging but it is the truth One of the reasons why they were so good in iraq and afghan was because of Northern ireland where they honed their skills obeying all human rights laws as they laid waste to ira commandos
    3 .The new RUSSIAN spetnaz forces UNDER PUTIN part 2
    4. ISRAEL special forces ( I cant spell it properly it stats with s) Although someone needs to tell us what happened in JENIN………. that was a blood bath or are the IDF slipping ? nah no chance of that.
    AFRICA:
    1.ALGERIA any questions as to how ruthless they can be 10 years of fighting a war in exactly the same way Nigeria started in the Niger delta they suddenly realized they were in a mess ( oh yes Nigeria will come to that sooner moreso than later) they reorganized on a coin level footing outward combined with unprecedented MILITARY EXPANSION.
    2. Nigeria their S,.F are engaged daily in operations and every mistake as deadly as they are are bitter sweet lessons that other countries with high tech gizmos do not get the benefit off.SIMULATION IS SIMULATION. in real life guns misfire/ fire correctly orders get interpreted rightly and wrongly. my point is in real life things do not go as planned.
    3. South Africa .They are gradually becoming more involved in AFRICA affairs and as such are – sustaining casualties and learning hopefully from it.
    4. ANGOLA. The head scratcher is why so little is done for their navy sf with such a huge coastline.
    4. EGYPT does not really count nothing meaningful that is protracted besides some bandits is really going on.

  19. jimmy says:

    *shows*

  20. peccavi says:

    Oga Jimmy, like I say once you get to a certain level, SF na SF.
    I was with Czech SF and they were insane, they would go in 2-4 man patrols into villages a platoon would only enter with ,massive fire support.
    All those SF units are very well trained but have used Afghanistan to get the necessary experience. Likewise the Russians,
    Oga Augustine: 80kg is not a joke, I have carried as much, if you think you can carry tyhat for months, e no go happen. When you say 16kg is nothing, the next question is how and where do you pack it, and then the batteries, all of this on top of you water, food, ammo, spare clothes, sleeping kit, radios, spare ammo, specialist kit etc. Like I said its a cool item, it would be nice to see how it works, but I am always suspicious (from experience) of anything the military says is man portable. The man carrying it is never the one who designed it! And in my younger days it was always me!!

    • jimmy says:

      Ose o jare (thank you very much) lol about lugging the 80 pounds. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

      • Augustine says:

        Oga sir, the more you LOL, the more you remain behind time and reality. Your choice my dear brother.

      • jimmy says:

        oga augustine
        There is a true life movie out there right now called lone survivor , it Depicts Hollywood style when PEOPLE DEPEND TOO MUCH on glossy equipment. Over Twenty soldiers were killed trying to rescue 4NAVY SEALS ( THREE OF WHO WERE ALREADY DEAD). The sat comms did not, they resorted to ordinary telephone they were trapped by a heavily armed rag tag taliban rpg gang all the glossy kits that you glow about came to naught. PERSONALLY please do not fall in love with hi tech gizmo because the heaviest weapon in the Taliban machinery is the rpg which has rendered Chinooks virtually useless without an Apache helicopter . OGA get with reality of why my country is pulling out of AFGHANISTAN.We just traded An alleged deserted for the filthy five all the tech gizmo could not find him infact A SPECIAL FORCE OF FIVE SOLDIERS DIED TRYING TO FIND THIS SON OF A GUN.Tech gizmo only goes so far.Let me know when the Japanese forces are engaged in a falloujah or a jenin type scenario then I will rank them.

    • Augustine says:

      Oga peccavi, 80kg is no big deal for SF, they don’t always go on foot, South African recces use horses and bicycles. British SAS drop off in helicopters. Bulky modern security equipment get disassembled into smaller parts and carried by a team, these are things I have see (I am not an SF) because of where I work and where I live. SF ops don’t always last for many days, timeline varies. Oga mi, this thing is not rocket science. Cheers !

      • Augustine says:

        To add chief Peccavi, in North America, the standard recommended load that men and women carry in the workplace is 25kg and some people do that for 12 hours a day at work. So, compare an SF guy with 16kg, and SF ops many times, they just drop their gear and sit down, especially on recce.

  21. ozed says:

    Wonderful Article on Business day.
    Couldnt have said it better myself. The guy even quote Beegie sef.

    —————————————————————————————————————–
    Questionable defence contracts undermine Nigeria’s security
    June 4, 2014 | Filed under: main story | Author: PATRICK ATUANYA

    Four years into an insurgency that has cost the lives of over 12,000 people, including hundreds of military personnel, the Nigerian military only started deploying Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles last month in the major theatre of operations in the north-east.

    The Chinese-built CS/VP3 Bigfoot MRAP would be a welcome relief to soldiers who had hitherto been operating in vehicles mostly associated with militias than a national army, such as thin-skinned Toyota Hilux pickup trucks vulnerable to Boko Haram ambushes, small arms fire and Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs).

    The military failed to provide its soldiers in the frontlines with adequate firepower and protection, even as the US Joint IED Defeat Organisation in 2012 rated the Nigerian insurgency as the most IED-intensive in Africa.

    Defence sources tell BusinessDay that this is a symptom of the opaque and often corrupt procurement practices prevalent in the military, which often lead to unnecessary delays, wrong or defective equipment purchase, or outright stealing of monies.

    “The Nigerian military has pretty much been living on past glory, and currently fields outmoded equipment inadequate in protecting the country from current, emerging and potential future threats,” the defence source said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

    “The use of middlemen in procurements of military hardware has left the country less secure, and increasingly unable to project its power and influence in the sub-region,” the source said.

    Nigerian soldiers were left to man checkpoints in Mali, after showing up with inadequate amour and vehicles that often broke down, leaving the fighting to mostly Chadian and French forces.

    The country bought Israeli surveillance drones in 2006 – during the Obasanjo regime – that might have been used to hunt down Islamist rebels, but they have been grounded since then.

    Sources tell BusinessDay that the drones which cost $17 million (N2.7 billion) apiece were defective from day one, and were “never intended to fly”, while the deal to purchase them was done through a middleman, who pocketed millions of dollars to be shared with top military and civilian officials.

    Most defence procurements are done country to country without secrecy, as it is done in Nigeria, or directly with the original equipment manufacturers.

    “The use of middlemen in our procurement process smacks of sharp practice. The Ministry of Defence can deal directly with equipment manufacturers such as Suncraft, ISI, Norinco, Poly Technologies Inc, BVST, TP Marine, etc without using middlemen. The only fathomable role played by a middleman in the process would be to receive kickbacks,” said respected defence blogger Beeg Eagle.

    Nigeria, which has a $510 billion economy and defence budget of $6.5 billion for 2014, still does not field any fourth-generation fighter jets, even though 10 African countries, including Uganda, Angola and Chad currently do. At the same time, there is virtually no modern air defence system in any part of the country.

    In West Africa, Chad with a GDP of $11 billion currently has the balance of power against Nigeria, as it fields fourth-generation fighter jets (MIG-29 and SU-25 ground attack Frog foot), which are superior to Nigeria’s F-7 jets.

    In Southern Africa, Angola, which rivals Nigeria as Africa’s top oil producer, fields 18 SU-30 fighter jets, which analysts say could theoretically hit any targets in southern Nigeria from Angola, including oil fields and major cities, due to its 3,500 km attack radius.

    “The military seems more interested in pulling out of the pension scheme and integrated payroll systems which reduce fraud, than carrying out any major threat assessment to Nigeria’s security and acquiring the assets to deal with those threats,” said another source.

    “The former chief of air staff said on TV that the Nigerian Air Force (NAF) was capable of defending the nation’s airspace after reactivating the 30-year-old Alpha Jets first. This is clearly a case of wishful thinking, lack of knowledge, or of defence planners not giving the president the true picture of the poor state of our military,” the source said.

    Most of the airframes in the Nigerian Air Force, including the C-130 transport planes and Alpha jets, were purchased in the early 1980s by the civilian regime of Shehu Shagari. Some analysts wonder why such cannot be replicated again in view of today’s much more dangerous world.

    “Our inclination towards seeing defence expenditure as an anathema has seen our NAF robbed of its pedigree,” another defence source said. “Nigeria, which shares borders with the Gulf of Guinea, the Sahel, Central Africa and West Africa, must position her air force to operate across these theatres.”

    PATRICK ATUANYA

  22. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Augustine, I never said that experience was the only criteria! I said training plus experience! Oga Jimmy added failure (which falls under experience)! Of course, tech is important and could be decisive. Moreover, I mentioned support! Support comes in different forms! It includes intelligence, tech, medical, close support, hot extraction etc! All of these are support!

    Japanese tech is better than American… Americans dread the Japanese…’ How do u know? In fact, some times it boils down to specific realities and circumstances!

    And yes in the 70s to mid 90s period the SADF (and Rhodesians) SF rocked!
    As for the radar, miniaturization tech is developing and will only get better, thus we will see it as well as others feature prominently in the battle field of the future

    Finally, I notice that ur top 3 are Chinese, South and North Koreans (by the way, I would rate the Koreans both North and South above the Chinese) while US, UK and Israel ‘SEEMS’ to be the best 3( thus they are over rated)! How is it that u don’t believe those with most tech to be the best while in ur opinion those with the most tech are the best?
    Pls don’t get me confuse, u see, I come here to learn too, not just to share!

    • Augustine says:

      @Ifiok, I will just summarize my comments, some of our brothers here feel uncomfortable if you write too much, for this topic I have said much. I am willing to say a few more though.

      I live in the western world and I live daily with American, Chinese, and Japanese technology, I know who is better. That is my life experience, not a textbook, I see tech and I see them dismantled, I see their specs data sheet, I know the Japanese are better.

      I talk to North American service men, they have a fear of Japanese capability coming from superior Jap technology, the kind of jamming, surveillance and detection the Japs can do amazes the Americans. Japan is just silent on anything military related.

      Tech vs experience, you need a mix of both. Also, some operations require less tech and more human skills, and vice versa, so it depends on each specific type of duty at hand.
      No American will tell you he can endure what a Japanese man can endure physically, assuming all other human factors are the same. The Asians SFs can kill without firing a bullet or throwing a knife, from say 50 feet away or more. I am into Asian arts.

      Support, not all SF ops span a long time line, how long did US Seals stay on the field to kill Osama Bin Laden? Some ops team just stay 20km away from their front-line and get replenished and even get men swapped to relief. How do the South Africa recces last for months on the field behind enemy lines?

      Bros, I see a lot of my other Nigerian brothers who think that what I said is rocket science, the extract on South African recces I posted above speaks volumes, but people who are writing personal opinion from their homes still think they have a better argument.

      Ah, my Naija family !

  23. ifiok umoeka says:

    ‘…When you say 16kg is
    nothing, the next
    question is how and
    where do you pack it, and
    then the batteries, all of
    this on top of you water,
    food, ammo, spare
    clothes, sleeping kit,
    radios, spare ammo,
    specialist kit etc. Like I
    said its a cool item, it
    would be nice to see how
    it works, but I am always
    suspicious (from
    experience) of anything
    the military says is man
    portable. The man
    carrying it is never the
    one who designed it! And
    in my younger days it was’.
    Oga Peccavi, on point

  24. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Ozed, the article makes a good read. I wish that we will continue to get this and more in our dailies thanks to the Chibok girls!
    I would pause to say that had the media done her job, the massive fraud in our security services would have been brought to light and perhaps we wouldn’t be where we are today
    However, it has a few errors like defense budget instead of security budget and superiority of Su 25 to the F7 even though they are not in the same class. Moreover, I thought the Angolan Flankers were 12 and not 18 as well as it 3500km combat radius instead of range though that depending on it combat configuration
    This is a testament that the Beegeagle blog is widely read, thus we must be careful on how and what we post!

  25. Augustine says:

    asorockweb says:
    June 4, 2014 at 5:50 am
    Oga Augustine,
    Initially I was laughing at the imagery that formed in my mind of offensive SF op units logging a radar around.

    Now? I am laughing at your latest post.

    I can see that you are an avid reader and writer – it’s like you just arrived at the well of knowledge and self expression.

    Some of the stuff you are describing are better called spy-gear or toys.

    • Augustine says:

      asorockweb says:
      June 4, 2014 at 5:50 am
      Oga Augustine,
      Initially I was laughing at the imagery that formed in my mind of offensive SF op units logging a radar around.

      Now? I am laughing at your latest post.

      I can see that you are an avid reader and writer – it’s like you just arrived at the well of knowledge and self expression.

      Some of the stuff you are describing are better called spy-gear or toys.

      REPLY

      Oga Asorockweb, sorry to say, you no dey current at all, advanced technology has left you far behind. Special forces do spy ops, call it recce if you wish, and does civilian spy agents carry about 16kg radars on the field? We Nigerians have some attitudes that keeps us where we are and not move forward. Your sarcasm does not change the things you do not know and has never seen. Remaining ignorant of facts or being humble to learn new facts, is a personal choice each person makes in life.

      • Augustine says:

        jimmy says:
        June 4, 2014 at 3:04 am
        Oga Augustine Since you are half yoruba ,half hausa I will address you thus: rora koto soro. Nigerian special forces besides killing boko as you put have seen action “allegedly” in the following countries Ivory coast : courtesy of gbagbo ex prime minister refusing to take gej’s phone call. Mali: here there is no alleged on this blog we have a picture, and the president of france thanked Nigeria publicly. Niger delta: This is actually their home base need directions ask oga beeg. Cameroon: Enough said.

        Reply

        NOT ENOUGH SAID Ooa Jimmy, you get argument, me I get facts. I posted historical achievements of South African recces, could you post same for Nigerian SF and let us compare? More facts, less speculations, that is the name of the game, give us facts and figures oga, we day wait.

      • asorockweb says:

        Oga Augustine, if you live in the “western world”, specifically the US, some of the technology I helped develop might be keeping you alive.

        Everybody can jump on a plane and go to the “western world”, this is no longer the 50’s; it happens all the time. I bet you more than half the people on this blog live in the “western world”.

        Like I said, maybe you just arrived at the fountain of knowledge.

        And please don’t call the Japanese “japs”, it is not a nice term.

  26. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Augustine, well u’ve not told us the kind of tech u see and don’t say DVD, play stations or that Lexus are better than Lincolns as those are irrelevant! We are talking about Military Tech! And that u live in the West isn’t convincing enough!

    No American will tell
    you he can endure
    what a Japanese man
    can endure physically,
    assuming all other
    human factors are the
    same.
    OGA ABEG EXPLAIN?

    The Asians SFs
    can kill without firing a
    bullet or throwing a
    knife, from say 50 feet
    away or more. I am
    into Asian arts.
    That one is simple. In 9ja, we have tech that can kill thousands of miles away! Its called TRADITIONAL AFRICAN ART aka JUJU!

    ‘Support, not all SF ops
    span a long time line,
    how long did US Seals
    stay on the field to kill
    Osama Bin Laden?’
    Bros if u know the amount of support invested in that ops from intel (human, sat, drone, sensor etc) to asset for hot extraction if things went wrong… , u will marvel. The boom boom was the easy part and those SEAL team 6 boys will tell u that the prep drills were more difficult!

    … How do the
    South Africa recces
    last for months on the
    field behind enemy
    lines?’
    Ans: Support

    I’m sure u’ve heard of DARPA, IARPA
    And NASA. While the players u’ve mentioned have good even great tech, no one in our world today beats the US in terms of tech generally and military tech specifically! Why, because no one has invested the kind of resources (financial and human), consistency and commitment in this area, no one!
    Now does that mean that tech wins or is needful all the time? No! U’ve said it and Oga Beegz has said it b4!

    However, TECH IN THE HANDS OF THE IGNORANT WILL NOT ALWAYS PROFIT!

  27. Tope says:

    Guys calm down, lets not argue the Nigerian Special forces are say 10-15 years, we have had some of the best train us, US SEALS,GREEN BERETS AND litle know ones like Recon team, UK RBS,SAS have trained us, Isreal SF forces have trained us and nw we hv done joint training wit china.

    Our kitting are superb, we have a good tech balance signal jammers, nvgs,tavlors n co, but most importantly we have a Low KIA rate which we need to commend, the USA . And other visiting navies have done military drills with our SBS and have rated them high.

    The pirates that were killed off the lagos coast, shekaushekau shot n allegedly killed, the many boko bokoanders arrested or killed, nigernigera camp 5 landing, the destruction of boy loaf at marine base are some pass mark for them but I can categorically state our navy SBS can stand up to any sf in the world.

  28. jimmy says:

    oga AUGUSTINE
    I dey kampe much respect for your comments as you told me to state facts i will state them country by country.
    Mali: when the invasion by the french started we were told the mix up was in the language it was Niger, Nigerian soldiers were too busy begging for food or pulling sentry duty, Fortunately for us there is a moving video on C NN that clearly shows Nigerian troops mixed with Nigerian Troops which during that time I pointed out, not convinced, we waited till we on this blog got ACTUAL PICTURES OF Nigerian SF mixing with Malian Soldiers, Please go to the archives during the month of the invasion dec/jan 2013?
    IVORY COAST: This article ( about the presence of NIGERIAN SF) was actually written by an IVORY COAST journalist and translated on to beegeagle, This is also fact, Right after the IVORY COAST president was installed one of his first state visits was to Nigeria to PUBLICLY thank Nigeria and GEJ
    Cameroon: Right now the only reason why Cameroon moved a 1,000 troops to the border was because PAPA FRANCE told them when Nigerian SF come a calling ” don’t call us we ( France) will call you ( Cameroon) .
    Niger delta . please ask OGA BEEGS about what happened @ camp 5 the mend strong hold that was overrun and is now an fob.These are the facts if you are still not convinced ASK OGA HENRY.

    • peccavi says:

      Oga abeg lets not deceive ourselves, Nigeria troops did not engage in combat operations in Mali nor did they deploy Morth of the Mopti line. Nigeria troops did not engage. There are many reasons for this but to the best of my knowledge our troops did not engage

  29. Augustine says:

    @Ifiok senior bros, I replied you big time, with list of few equipment, and plenty web-link only photos of Asian and Western SF equipment and training drills you never imagined, but since last night, the system here has not allowed my web-links and the whole narrations to display here, maybe the system is programmed to reject too man photo web-links.

    @Jimmy big bros, I no see anything like achievement in your long post o ! The story no dey any kampe at all, sorry to say but just being honest. USA SEALS SF killed Osama Bin Laden and Nigerian SF killed the real Shekau, South African Recces killed plenty Cuban sodliers and destroyed many notable ground targets long range deep inside enemy controlled territory in Angolan bush war, all which I listed.

    Your treatise does not tell us what Nigerian SF did in Mali (Mali ? Nigeria was more of patrolling), Cameroon (Cross border kills of ordinary Bokos that Cameroon kills in hundreds), Niger Delta….which anti-militant strikes specifically attributable to them ? Any clear cut records? Not just generalization and speculation, many other SFs in this world have same kind of generalized list of achievements that does not rank one different from the others.

    Ko si wahala, o ! Mi o binu rara, I no vex.

  30. demola says:

    @augstine
    i keep wondering what jonathan did for mali that made them to give him the highest malian national award i.e the Grand Croix de
    l’Ordre National du Mali (Great
    Cross of the National Order of
    Mali).

    • jimmy says:

      No demola according to augustine they just provided sentry duty and held three major mali towns down without incident.This is what happens when you allow other people to tell your story,they never tell it to your benefit. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

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