Nigerian Army Amphibious Forces in Stingray CIS 50 12.7mm HMG-armed river gunboats . A green-and-red topped Made-in-Nigeria Modant Marine MM90E gunboat is visible in the background.
Army opens more training schools to tackle insurgencyhttp://www.ngrguardiannews.com/news/national-news/164774-army-opens-more-training-schools-to-tackle-insurgency
A better title would have been:
Army reopens divisional level training schools, starting with 1st Div.
Another good move.
Beegs, are those the Singapore technologies 12.7mm HMGs? The barrels long a bit long.
Yeah, those are STK 12.7mm HMGs. Those and the DShK 12.7mm HMGs also feature on Chinese-built gunboats. The Panhard VBLs carry Browning M2 12.7mm HMGs.
Elsewhere and for COIN operations, Landcruiser gun trucks field Browning and STK HMGs. Never seen a Landcruiser with a DShK and I take that to be a strategic operational maneouvre aimed at gaining an advantage over the enemy who field DShK-armed technicals.
Oga Beeg, based on your analysis of these guns, can we get our army in NE to do this for firepower and out-gun Boko ?
I like the cabin of this vehicle. It is obviously armour-protected. I also like the ‘blast free’ wheels which look to be intended for operating in theatres prone to roadside IED/mine attacks. The guns appear like 23mm cannons to me.
Colonel Eeben and his men used similar-sized DAF trucks armed with 23mm cannons in Angola. It should be interesting to have him assess the operational value of this gun truck.
For a fire support vehicle which should be characterised by mobility, I would however love to see her downsized by a THIRD so as to improve maneuverability while maintaining the current design concept but with the addition of a gun shield. After all, there are hundreds of Landcruisers carrying 23mm cannons across African and Middle Eastern theatres of operation.
Rightsized, she should be able to bring devastating firepower to the battlespace and that, with the entailment of crew protection. I hope they can reduce this battlewagon to something in between the Mitsubishi FUSO and the Pinzgauer ATV as far as her size goes.
While the addition of this AA gun truck will be a nice force multiplier, I am a bit weary of deploying such equipment until the NA and the DHQ have addressed the issue of its armoured vehicles falling into the hands of the enemy. I can remember the NAF flying sorties during the Liberia/Serria Leone conflict to neutralize such heavy equipment should they be captured by the rebels. I doubt if such search and destroy missions have been flown or have yielded any results since BH have employed these vehicles in recent attacks. How does BH have access to our APCs in the first place? Ambush by scout parties, attacks on military installations or check points, poor NA logistics (running out of diesel) or the presence of an active/once active fifth column?
June 8, 2014 at 8:31 am
I am a bit weary of deploying such equipment until the NA and the DHQ have addressed the issue of its armoured vehicles falling into the hands of the enemy.
How does BH have access to our APCs in the first place? Ambush by scout parties, attacks on military installations or check points, poor NA logistics (running out of diesel) or the presence of an active/once active fifth column?
A million naira question that is answered with a million naira silence everywhere, I stopped asking because it seems to be a ‘No Go Area’ nobody wants to talk about….a ‘taboo’.
The gunner actually had to sit unprotected at the back in the older versions of this weapon. I imagine there is a remotely operated version developed and ready for production somewhere in SA.
Klean assessment by Oga Beegz! It will be maneuvering with Land Cruisers and co thus it must have the capability to DANCE so down sizing is in order! Perhaps a Unimog U 4023/5023 4×4/6×6 would do! By the way, the ATF Dingo and the SA Buffel series are based on the Unimog chassis and drive train.
Yeah, a UNIMOG driveline would be okay. Something which is no more than 1.5-1.66 times bigger than a Landcruiser
In a convoy led by a BigFoot MRAP, I would follow up with a 14.5mm MG-armed Landcruiser gun truck, a Panhard AML AFV, two Mitsubishi FUSO troop carriers, three SINOTRUK lorries bearing troops, an Otokar Cobra APC, THIS 23mm cannon armed battlewagon and two BigFoot MRAPs bringing up the rear in that order.
The vehicle just needs to be right-sized.
Oga Russel, on point
Colonel Eben was a soldier?
A legendary one. Google STTEP, executive outcomes, or just. Colonel eeben Barlow.
Looolz!!! Soldier Ke? Noooo he was a footballer.
Oga Oje Na wa for you ooh.
Guy which kind question be that?
No fall your hand for this place abeg
Lol…Eben is a highly distinguished soldier who belonged to the generation of legendary COIN and expeditionary operators of the 1970s and 1980s. Those were the days when the Buffel and Casspir MRAPs defined the art and the 32 Battalion and 61 Battalion defined the art through COIN, combat engineer and SF operations in Namibia and Angola while trying to operate very deep against MK and PLAN guerrillas and their Angolan FAPLA and Cuban allies.
Colonel Eben retired from the old SADF in 1989. He joined them in 1972 and was thus practically in the field during the altercations of the Border War which spanned the period 1966-1989. Post-1989, he was founding chairman of the EXECUTIVE OUTCOMES PMC which saw action in Sierra Leone, Angola and Papua New Guinea, among other places.
Read about the South African Border War and Executive Outcomes on WIKI. That provides good generalist knowledge on the story.
Yeah guys, ever since the conflict in mali, I have been calling for NA to be a little bit or a lot more innovative with what they already have.
Using existing anti aircraft platforms such as the the vulcan, the ZSU-23-2 and the quadbarrelled ZSU-23-4 and the chinese triple A we just acquired.
While NA hopefully ramps up acquisition of defensive mraps and APCs, NA needs this suppressive firepower to gain an upper hand against BH in the vast expanses between towns and villages.
The serbian forces during the bosnian and kosovan wars, made the best of mounted AA guns in suppressing rebels.
Yea, the same way we use the Shilka in SL
The picture of the multi-ton truck mounted with the ZSU-23-2 was source from the link below.
I don’t a multi-ton truck mounted with cannons is right for our Army or our current situation as regards Boko Haram.
June 8, 2014 at 5:08 pm
The picture of the multi-ton truck mounted with the ZSU-23-2 was source from the link below.
Kindly explain reasons why in detail.
The picture you posted is that of a KWE truck, mounted with a ZSU-23-2 anti-aircraft gun.
The picture came from the blog of a South African veteran of the bush wars mid 70s to late 80s.
The platform was designed to be camouflaged, and it’s purpose was to shoot down helicopters and low flying jets.
It is not meant to be a mobile fighting platform.
Considering the Boko Haram situation, here are a few scenarios that the NA has to deal with:
1) Base defence
2) Protecting a town or a village
3)Protecting mechanized troops on the move
4) Attacking BH camps
5) Mechanized troops making contact with a mobile BH formation.
Let’s consider the scenarios
Platforms like the ZSU-23-2 or the ZSU-23-4 are best used when you are shooting at an enemy that is more than 1km away. At that range, slight transverse adjustments will cover a wide arch.
If the enemy closes in to about 500m, because the platform is completely unprotected, it is very vulnerable.
This is better achieved with hard-points armed with HMGs, grenade launchers and mortars. The NA should consider hardened gun towers.
Protecting a town or a village
Chances that it will be at the right place at the right time are slim – BH plans it’s attacks only after scouting the target with human agents.
Protecting mechanized troops on the move
The truck is vulnerable, can’t shoot forward and can’t manoeuvre.
Better achieved with an IFV
Attacking BH camps
Better achieved with mortars and artillery
Mechanized troops making contact with a mobile BH formation
The truck is vulnerable, can’t shoot forward and can’t manoeuvre.
Better achieved with an IFV
Note that I stayed away from mentioning air-power – it was deliberate.
I know the source of the picture, and the vehicle as armed was recommended by a military officer from a different country for firepower multiplier against Bokos.
Every vehicle is vulnerable, Boko has blown up our APCs, so ?
It is long range double turret with effective range of 2.5km and since Nigeria has no visible infantry weapon for that range that we can see, it is useful in defending towns and bases when you have information of Boko attack, you deploy it where it is needed at the moment.
It is good for company sized troops that require extra firepower and a stand-off weapon.
180 men with that wagon will whip 300 Bokos with ease.
It does not deploy alone, it is protected by motorised infantry, it only gives an edge over Bokos, being deadlier than our Browning 50 cal HMG. With optical sight, one burst from the AAA gun will tear a Boko Toyota up and kill 10 Bokos riding on it or cause the driver to accident the Toyota.
There is not current alternative to that firepower in NA infantry today, where are all the IFVs ? 47 BTR-3U and the what next? You see any Cascavel in town ?
Better get what you can have than dream of what is not coming soon. We have a war already.
It’s firepower by ammo is 4 times that of our current Browning and adds 50% extra effective range. Why reject better equipment?
That gun wagon will wreck havoc on the enemy according to those who have used it successfully in ground battles and now recommend it.
The man with an experience is not at the mercy of the man with an argument.
Well, I hope you start your own country so you can buy a massive truck mounted with a ZSU-23-2 as your anti-personnel weapon.
The “officer” that told you that platform is what we need against Boko Haram is messing with you.
IFVs are designed to fight, and they are NOT APCs.
Many IFVs can withstand a 12.7mm round – at close range your gun-lorry can be disabled with a Beretta 9mm.
And how often does the army know when a town is going to be attack and from what direction?
If You use it as part of a motorized formation, has you asked yourself the basic question – can the elevation of the gun go negative? You may need that if you are protecting yourself against an ambush, unless you feel you can scare BH away by shooting above their heads.
That gun-lorry is a good platform for what it is designed for – shooting down helicopters and low flying jets from a camouflaged position.
@Augustin, the guy above gave you a reply that anyone will take seriously. All he gives are facts. No amplification, no fear mongering, no science-fiction, just objective facts, and a sound reasoning, try and emulate.
You got it all wrong, he did not insist on the size of the truck but rather the size of the gun and the armoured compartment on the truck to protect occupants. Seems the truck is your focus, the vehicle rather than the firepower weapon mounted.
Did you read Oga Beegeagle say the truck Nigeria would depoly should be reduced in size to a third of the one in the photo for maneuverability ? Yes he said it. I have also personally been an advocate for vehicle high speed for our army against Bokos.
@Asorockweb, it seems your own specialization is to pick good things and create or magnify it’s slightest disadvantages rather than suggest how to improve or modify it. I have known you for that. Keep it up my brother…for yourself….freedom of speech.
Easier, cheaper and faster to get 100 trucks with double turret AAA guns locally fabricated within Nigeria and Africa for every troop company in NE army division, than to go through protocol import process for 100 IFVs from Asia or Europe.
Problems are meant to be solved according to urgency of need with stop gap measures and according to available funds. So when are you expecting your new IFVs while Boko still rampages Nigeria and massacres thousands of people at will ? You remain safe in your own house sir.
Hope you know that a Boko RPG will tear a basic IFV into pieces, IFV is not a magic weapon. Almost all military men with international experience on this blog have agreed that IFVs won’t win us this war, they favour simpler firepower multipliers.
Try to see cups of water half full, and not half empty.
some ECOMOG units post 98/99 crisis had similar platforms. heavy to medium trucks, mounting 23mm AA cannon.
fellow generals, its ZU-23-2 not ZSU-23-2. only the SHILKA has the ‘S’ to it ZSU-23-4
The ‘S’ stands for SELF PROPELLED. most soviet 23 mm TWIN cannons where not self propelled. its the QUAD BARRELED cannons that are SELF PROPELLED, hence the ZSU.
June 10, 2014 at 2:50 am
Boko haram’s Toyota 4×4 trucks mounted with 14.5mm anti-aircraft guns that are rampaging Nigerian army barracks, air force bases, cities and towns with zero armour protection on them were all shooting at Nigerian army from camouflaged positions, right ?
If I want to face you Oga Asorockweb in a real combat, I won’t even send a soldier, I will send a policeman to fight you because you think like one sir.
Which Nigerian army barracks was ransacked ? Apparently facts do no matter to you, that is why serious people will not take you seriously. Confusing villages with towns, humm !!! “air force bases”: plurial doesn’t apply when there is only one subject. One air force base. This is why you can’t be taken seriously. You have a great tendency to amplify things for whatever reason.
By the way, 14.5mm machine guns are rare in the battle field.
I have not seen a BH truck mounted with a 14.5mm HMG.
What is more common is the 12.7mm HMG.
Oga Augustine, I would say that Oga Asorockweb did raise some valid points like the ability for the truck to shoot in the forward arc as well as depress it barrels to shoot downwards! For mountainous regions, with it ability to elevate upwards, it will not only hit copters but targets uphill!
However, it seems u advocate it use in a defensive position (in bases) in conjunction with early warning! In that role, it will wreck havoc but we are also looking @ what we would use to go a hunting as well as convoy protection! However Oga Beegz recommended it use among other vehicles (amour and otherwise)! Right now I would say that we think in terms of MPV(A) and not have too many type as we must think in terms of logistics as well! I’m pulled by ur RIGHT NOW argument but we must have a sense of caution so as not to field wrong solutions!
As for the RPG vs IFV argument, its dependent on which RPG and which IFV!
In my opinion, let’s get full option otokar cobras and cirit rockets from Turkey in good no! Get more Mil 35/17 @ 16/24 from Russia/Ukraine, get new drones (China,Italy or Israel) or get our own to work ( be careful next time… if there is a next time).
We have a command centre, we have more charlies coming on stream, we have tucanos being fielded and our Rangers SF should be about ready by now (with NVG, tactcom, handheld drones, new rifles, SAW, sniper rifles, RPO-M/RPG 29/32 with thermobaric/fragmentation warheads etc with or without their trainer) and let go BH hunting!
While defending our turf, we engage them in a highly mobile mix, ambushing them while defeating their ambush! Sustain the tempo for 3months and we will be out of BH. While we can’t garrison every village or hamlet, we MUST HAVE AWARENES OF their EVERY MOVE and be PREPARED to HALT THEM!
Oga Ifiok, thank you, but that rapid response capability is exactly what we don’t have now, and may take long to acquire. It is a big weakness in Nigerian military now exposed for the world to see, poor mobility on home soil ! What will happen if Nigeria is at war in a foreign land?
In war if you lack mobility and quick response capability, the only choice left is to deploy garrisons or else you live with regular casualties and pockets of defeat.
The choice is hows to make….I mean our leaders in Nigeria to decide.
oga asorock web, you always make good points, and your posts are always sweet to read. however, on this one, i will go with oga augustino.
the depressed barrel situation you allude to was even more of common problem with twin barrel 14.5 mm AA cannons (ZPU-2) than the 23 mm twin cannons. you would be surprised how low those twin 23mm barrels go when used in flat trajectory.
the twin barrel and quad barrel 14.5 mm AA cannons ( ZPU-2 and ZPU-4 ) re extremely lethal and i would encourage the army to invest in these weapons. but saying the truck mounted 23 mm AA cannon are less ineffective for base defence and mobile attack is simply unfair, and poor understanding of cannons and their innovative combinations. in most cases, their elevation and depression are even superior to that of the ZPUs. its older brother, the SHILKA was far more useful to the russians in grozny for clearing multi story buildings top down, than any MBTs.
as for tactics, there is no one way of doing tasks. while some might deploy some of their weapons system simply for base defence, others might use same platforms for manouvre warfare.
the palestinians back then in lebanon ( pre ’82) where widely notorious with the ZU-23-2 mounted on medium trucks. they took them everywhere, and believe me, after having to face these weapons mounts on multiple occasions, the phalange forces came to hate and dread those trucks. even the syrians had a hard time containing that threat when they went in to support the phalange forces against the PLO.
And yes you re right, they are mounted rear facing. but saying the enemy will converge at 500 m and render this weapon ineffective means those employing the weapons will be really foolish. this is because such platform will be provided with infantry support and have optics. bad tactics will be the problem here and not the weapons.
every weapon platform has its good and downside. how you effectively use them determines their importance, and not just the weapons alone.
in SRL, ECOMOG 34 MOT Battalion used their towed howitzers in horizontal trajectory. their actions where very successful in stopping the RUF hordes, even though they where unorthordox. in some particular sticky situation, they where calling in mortar and artillery strike few meters from their own positions. why no military text book would advice such tactics, it was danger close and it worked. RUF forces where decimated by that innovative battalion
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