NIGERIA IN THE HUNT FOR ADVANCED UKRAINIAN-BUILT T84 OPLOT TANKS ; FIRST TWO UNITS SPOTTED AT AN AIRPORT IN UKRAINE PREPARATORY TO BEING EXPORTED

http://www.informe.com.ua/en/page/119843/ukraine-to-send-two-sophisticated-tanks-to-nigeria-photo

About beegeagle

BEEG EAGLE -perspectives of an opinionated Nigerian male with a keen interest in Geopolitics, Defence and Strategic Studies
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117 Responses to NIGERIA IN THE HUNT FOR ADVANCED UKRAINIAN-BUILT T84 OPLOT TANKS ; FIRST TWO UNITS SPOTTED AT AN AIRPORT IN UKRAINE PREPARATORY TO BEING EXPORTED

  1. beegeagle says:

    Very good buy. Endorsed. Ultramodern, qualitative and from an otherwise non-controversial and unobtrusive source. Kudos to our defence planners.

    Thank you, Oga Obix…our man resident in the Russo-Ukrainian orbit for unearthing this stort and to Oga Drag_On for spotting this photo.

    ELSEWHERE, Obix in a stereotypically candid alert which was good enough for a thread starter in itself, stated as follows ;

    QUOTE

    “Submitted on 2014/09/19 at 8:51 pm

    http://www.beegeagle.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/second-chinese-built-1800-ton-p18n-offshore-patrol-vessel-of-the-nigerian-navy-f92-spotted/

    Another snippet: Yesterday, an Antonov-124 ‘Ruslan’ plane with two units of modern T-84U tanks from Ukraine was to leave for Nigeria..Unfortunately, the plane had technical problems and the delivery was halted. The news has reached the streets of Ukraine and the people are wondering why Ukraine should export tanks at this time when their army don’t have enough……..The tanks are still at the airfield waiting to be loaded………I’m still following the story.”

    END

  2. Alibo says:

    The title of this piece is ambiguous. It is either we have bought or negotiating to buy. Ukraine needs every dime they can get. We need a lot of tanks not one or two. If our arms dealers and those awarding the contracts were not corrupt and unpatriotic, buying weapons from Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and China would not be an issue and our soldiers would gain the upper hand in the struggle with Boko Haram. I hope they remember to buy enough ammo for these tanks or they will be useless. Corruption led us to the illfated attempt to smuggle $9.3 million into South Africa. Our people are too daft to understand that South Africa hates us and will do everything to embarrass us and tell the world that Nigeria is a pumped up, corrupt 4th world country whose pedigree is far below their own.

    • beegeagle says:

      Hmn..in my humble opinion, that is the most fitting phraseology that could be applied to the situation. Whether they are intended for evaluation or these are start-up deliveries air-freighted in sync with the battlefield exigencies in Nigeria (with the main consignment arriving by sea), it is correct to say that Nigeria are in the hunt for OPLOT tanks.

      It is a very good development regardless, given the fact that this tank has lately featured in bidding processes from Morocco to Thailand and Bangladesh.

      Thank God that the Nigerian military are amplifying our chances of getting full-optioned and contemporary systems by turning to Russia, Israel, China and Ukraine. That is so unlike those timid days of yore when we accepted every condescending offer from the West (think Jags and Eagle tanks), complete with odious conditions attached to the deployment of such systems.

      WAY TO GO for the Nigerian military. Nigerians say NO to half-rations sourced from the West just because a few Nigerians feel constrained by inferiority complexes to have our military looking like the armies they have been nurtured to idealise. The only constant in life is CHANGE.

  3. beegeagle says:

    UNRELATED

    You see how shamelessly hypocritical the Western media, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch can be? After the mere slap on the wrist over Gaza outrages, find a photo of a pro-government, pro-Western militiaman standing over the remains of pro-Russian rebels bound hands and feet to indicate brazen executions?

    Has anyone heard any of the big-mouthed media blabbermouths in the West mention this in a fleeting second? It is tolerable since the perpetrators are pro-Western. We shall continue to expose double standards here

    • Obix says:

      Oga Beeg, i know of the operation that lead to this. The ones tied are POWs. Summary executions are VERY RARE in this war. Both sides wants to capture as much prisoners as possible. On the ground, both sides of this conflict are committing all sorts of atrocities and i wont put more blames on any side. Trust me on this one!

    • Bush man says:

      Oga BEEG, you are so wonderful! This blog is a darling to me. PATRIOTISM HAS NO LIMIT! Go ahead, the Lord is with you. We are not under this impire called the west. Let us turn to Russia, China and Isreal for help jare. We also need the isreali made Tabor rifle, i think they are solid. In any case we must reject any form of sabotage IMPERIALISM from the west.

      What about all the killings and atrocities of the allied forces in Libya, Iraq and other places?

      PATRIOTISM! PATRIOTISM! PATRIOTISM!

      MONKEY NO FIN IM MAMA STILL LIKE AM.

      http://www.cbcn-ng.org/newsdetail.php?tab=372

      http://www.cbcn-ng.org/newsdetail.php?tab=336

      http://www.cbcn-ng.org/newsdetail.php?tab=349

      http://www.cbcn-ng.org/newsdetail.php?tab=341

      http://www.cbcn-ng.org/newsdetail.php?tab=351

      Let me tell you the plain truth, one of the reason why the west and their alies hate so much is due to our defence of morals and the dignity of human person.

      The west have shown themselves to be anti human, anti life and anti moral. Nigeria must continue to travel on the path of justice and santity.
      I learnt that the west headed by france is now trying sabotage the cameronian government. Is this true?

      May GOD protect AFRICA!

      MAY GOD BLESS YOU OGA BEEG.

      MAY GOD BLESS NIGERIA! KUDOS TO THE NIGERIAN ARMY!

    • peccavi says:

      They are prisoners they are not being executed. They will be exchanged in a few days or weeks

  4. Obix says:

    Oga Beeg, i’m loyal sir🙂 .
    I can confirm that the tanks are still at the Antonov corporation Hostomel airfield. The bad news is that it was Antonov’s plant workers that purposely blew the whistle (because the shipment was a total secret) and there were no problems with the plane. Their aim was to draw the people’s attention to issue. I’m not sure what will happen next because the Ukrainian populace is very sensitive to such issues and the government will not want to act insensitively at a time like this.
    A few days ago, a blogger here mentioned that Nigerian special forces are being trained in Ukraine. Actually we are talking about tank crew.

    On the helos, yes the order is for a total of 12 units. I expected more. Even resident bloggers here were quite surprised that we are going for just a dozen units. But before we start serious judgements, let’s see how many units from the previous contract will be delivered this year.
    What a way to start the weekend! 🙂

    • Alibo says:

      Thanks for this info my brother. I am happy about the orders for more helicopters. Ukraine should sensitize its people about its desprate need for cash and not only weapons. So selling tanks to Nigeria should not be a problem. I visited Dneprpetrovsk and Kiev in 2010 and 2012. Nice place. I hope that the US is not behind this leak.

      • Obix says:

        Oga Alibo, Ukraine is doing great concerning sensitizing the citizenry, you wont believe that Ukrainians have donated millions of dollars cash to the armed forces. Millionaires sell their properties, people donate kits, and some even pay for orders placed by the armed forces. The truth is that people will naturally find it hard to understand why new tanks are exported while hundreds of soldiers have lost their lives due to lack heavy armor. But like i said earlier, this must be part of a sealed order!

      • Kay says:

        Sirs, let’s hope it is not scuttled. I suspected that the workers may have been the whistleblowers rather than a broken down plane. The same way Nigeria has started pulling back her resources from all over the world on UN duty is the same way the Ukrainians might be expecting their military to start putting forward her best equipment. Only days ago, their President was appealing to Obama for more arms.
        Apparently only ten of this tanks have been inducted into service! Of course the Ukrainians would be fuming.
        This is the problem of reactionary buying, especially when they are facing a territorial dispute with a far stronger army.
        Let’s hope this doesn’t motivate others to snitch over other arms deals with Ukraine if any.

    • jimmy says:

      Oga obix you are the man!Oga Tim I salute you.Oga obix normally Tanks go by ships.This is different.What will cash strapped Ukraine do?

    • Are James says:

      These people need to understand that the path forward for Ukraine as other west leaning eastern European nations is to sell as much of its improved ‘Soviet’ hardware that it can for now to get money to retool for NATO hardware which is their eventual security destination. In this regard, Nigeria becomes the astute commercial partner, bypassing the long logistic chain queues for hardware in Russia and getting similar equipment with operator training faster and at even at a bargain.

    • beegeagle says:

      Yeah, bro. Anything Mi-171Sh Terminator or Mi-35M would be brand new and come from Russia. I expect that we shall have refurbished Mi-17s, and day/night fighting Mi-24V/Mi-35P attack helicopters coming from Russia and Ukraine.

      Meanwhile, it was a resident airborne ace, Menatti, who suggested elsewhere that two Mi-17s are expected to be delivered to the NAF by the Ukrainians.

      Now General Obix, the protocol on defence with Ukraine which I mentioned three years ago is taking shape. There is another protocol signed with Belarus. These are developments which should be monitored. It is clear that the Nigerian military are going to be receiving a lot of new and used hardware systems from Ukraine, Belarus and Russia from now on. Not forgetting China. Now we are taking ourselves a whole lot more seriously.

      PROTOCOL ON DEFENCE WITH UKRAINE

      On October 12 2011, BEEGEAGLE WROTE;

      Finally, let us add that the Minister of State I(Foreign Affairs),Prof Viola Onwuliri was in The Ukraine two weeks ago. An NTA News report monitored in Lagos revealed that, among other things, she signed a Protocol on Defence with the Ukrainians.

      https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/belarus-to-set-up-helicopter-maintenance-facility-in-nigeria/

      END

      PROTOCOL WITH BELARUS

      https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/belarus-to-set-up-helicopter-maintenance-facility-in-nigeria/

      BEEGEAGLE’S BLOG….integritas.

  5. beegeagle says:

    The mere intention of exporting them even in the face of shortages in Ukrainian Army suggests that this is part of a firm and inviolable order.

    • Solorex says:

      Was expecting BTR 3s not Oplots-The future for these deal is very fragile- Oplots are good ( close to T90) and the greatest selling point ( based on Thai testimony) is serviceability- it was re-build right from scratch to exclude all stress experienced with repairing and maintaining T72/T80 uncles- types and the fact that they are easily upgradeable. It is good to know that the tank was not designed as a rival or upgrade of T72/T80- this is the first ( Romanian-T72R/Croats-Degeman have their minimal successes too)very successful attempt by Eastern block country to modify a Tank in conformity to NATO standard.

      Downside- Spare parts might be serious issues- A T90 or most advanced T73 version wouldn’t have this issues. Secondly-Western influence is growing like wild fire in the face of Ukrainian crisis- A phone call from a big helper might halt everything ( guess that is why its a secret initially)-

      If there is a big conflict with Russia- T62 and T72 would be the mainstay (ration 1000 to 1!)not the Oplots-without any Oyibo intervention- the Oplots are available for sale unders any condition.

      • Solorex says:

        *T72

      • Are James says:

        @Solorex
        The spare parts issues are easily solved in this global village we are living in. There are just too many users buying and the possibilities for reverse engineering, dual use spare part sourcing and multi lateral problem solving are just too many. You yourself just admitted that this tank was re designed for maintainability. As for western powers trying to stop the deal, my off the cuff reaction is that yes they don’t like us much but he never reach that stage. If de tin ever reach that stage, we go begin take am personally.

      • drag_on says:

        Oga solorex,
        Then we better learn the art of reverse engineering spare parts,we are not kids that need milk.
        A 3D laser scanning system and CNC machines will be a good starting point.
        Medium size Induction furnaces and the art of Metallurgy for example,will help to replicate metals of military spec.
        We have to start from somewhere.It’s all about priorities.
        The Navy has shown the way,the Army is following and the Air force should raise the tempo.

        Oga C’N’C is right,we are so way behind our peers,and Nations below us.
        We can’t replicate complex spares yet Pakistan builds Tanks and Fighter jets.
        Iran? well,they build practically everything despite the sanctions.(Our Military,nearly collapsed).
        South-Africa’s (Denel) build Missiles,drones,helicopters,APC’s IFV’s MRAPS, Howitzers(G6)e.t.c.
        Israel, with 8 million people and half our GDP? lol. lets not go there.
        We are buying from Ukraine,GDP 180 Billion with a population of 45 million.
        We need military help and “technical’ assistance from Belarus and hope to buy a turbo prop fighter plane from Brazil e.t.c.
        It’s like we a petrified of investing in scientific/military developments that may not pay off but if they do will bring some type of military independence.
        We are afraid of a failed scientific adventure here yet,Nigerian scientists have been advancing Albion and the yanks for decades.
        Well, if we don’t want to build large weapons systems ,let us build spare parts surely?

  6. Are James says:

    I love the multi tier self protection on this tank. The APS actually detects RPG launches and shoots down the RPG warhead/projectiles before impact. When that fails, Reactive Armour takes and projectiles are blown up by the explosive blocks arranged around the tank body. When that fails, the main tank passive armour should do the final protection. There is always a weak link of course but it is undiscoverable on the field of battle.

  7. Bush man says:

    Hope some one will be pleased to answer this question for the benefit of doubt? Why is the US behaving this way? Are they afraid that our defence might become so strong to contain? Why did obasanjo say that a strong army is threat to democracy? I am begining to suspect the formal president as boy boy of the US. There is need for NIGERIA to build a very strong defence. Let’s go towards Russia and China.

    GOD BLESS NIGERIA! GOD BLESS Beegeagle’s Blog. AMEN.

  8. Henry says:

    It is imperative we discontinue the importation of LAV’s and even MRAPs from abroad. Let us make do with what we can manufacture.

    The IGIRIGI and Proforce Leopard ACV’s are just as good as the otokar cobra, Streit MK3 and panhard VBL. There is no reason why we seem to be petrified by large scale manufacturing. This insurgency has showed us, we are on our own. I mean, Streit group and Proforce defence are in the same line of business.

    Surveillance drones and armoured gun-boats should be entirely sourced from within nigeria. Even though they might no be of the same quality as imported equipments, let us use and manage them. We would improve from our mistakes. This is the only way to grow.

    The south-african, algerian, egyptian and possibly sudanese defence industries are way ahead of ours. The pakistanis are supposed to be our partners, however, the only visible thing we seem to learn from them is the use of soft-skinned pick-up trucks for COIN operations.

    Let us build our defence industry.

  9. toondey says:

    Sirs, I like the T84s but to be true to ourselves sourcing defence materials from ukraine might not benefit us in the long run and yet we might not even get this tanks. Present day ukraine is deeply pro-western and they will always want to be in their good books. @Are James, sir I believe the west detest us that much to prevent us from getting necessary weapons. And we don’t have to be friends with south africa by force. They want to be dominant south of the sahara, this runs from the ordinary citizens to their government that’s why evry opportunity to mudsling Nigeria will be utilized. Just check out just their movies whenever anything Nigeria is being portrayed. This only get watered down when they are about to make money from us. Having worked with some and having family members working with them corporate and government level believe me that is the truth. So our leaders must define our interests and path strongly.

  10. buchi says:

    oga toondey spot on…exactly

  11. igbi says:

    Oga Toondey understood the situation very well, I can only hope there are many like him in the decision making class.

  12. Tobey says:

    Nice tanks..Poor buy…Ukraine itself has only a handful in service…Why not go for T90s? That way, we won’t have issues with training and spare parts..If we are going to rebuild the Armoured Corps, we need more than a pair of fancy tanks…Even Algeria now operates over 300 units of the T90s..But…do we really need Tanks now?

  13. gbash10 says:

    Hmmm,what soever we are getting from Ukraine, let’s get it quick and move to Belarus and Russia.The T-84 is 100% better than our yeye British-built Vickers Mk III.
    My choice for NA MBT(main battle tank) is the Chinese-built Type 99G tank that featured most of the design of the M1A1 Abrams, Leopard 2A and the UK Challenger MBTs.
    Gentlemen,the military don de catch all those BH moles,10 were arrested yesterday in Bama,Maiduguri and … can’t remember, boots on the ground, morale is very HIGH!The hunt for fifth column is succeeding,this insurgency is likely coming to an end soon.
    God guide and protect our Security forces.

  14. beegeagle says:

    Ukraine is nothing without her pro-Russian eastern heartlands. The sitting puppet Ukrainian government shall yet be forced to return to the status quo ante or to Austro-Swiss style neutrality if she hopes to repossess her rebellious flanks. So I am not perturbed by this purchase in the same way as one spoke out against the Al Zarrar tanks gambit.

  15. Tope says:

    Any tank dat is above da T55 n Vickers is welcome from anyone, dose our MBTs shame me, this 2 are most likely test tanks one a trainer da oda one da real deal, precludin if we get more in larger quantity, we also spotted tanks in lagos recently dose too might be test tanks but sure thing is that Army has turned East, way to go.

  16. jimmy says:

    Here is the list of ten countries tha will sell Nigeria tanks some have been marked * meaning hassle free next day delivery and they are ranked in order of friendship and strategic interests.
    1. Russia* da as in yes plus you get free transportation Nigeria needs to make that seismic shift for the sake of moving forward and in terms of reliability and move to buy the upgraded T-72
    And also the AK74
    2.China in LL3: It is becoming very critical that one of armoured divisions should come from a country that is more than willing to share the technology to build our own tank.
    3.Angola .For short term purposes, they enjoy excellent relations with Nigeria and unlike some other african nations will do the right thing.
    4.Belarus.They have reached out to us,we have Nigerians who have gone there and come back.They have the planes the Su2 and will even upgrade them for us

    • toondey says:

      Oga jimmy does Angola manufacture tanks?!

      • jimmy says:

        No they do not ,but just like we gave the ruling party MPLA tons of weapons there stands to reason they will sell us some of their T-72 tanks. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

      • Are James says:

        @Jimmy.
        You may be right about Angola. This is the kind of thinking I support. Now ask yourself what Nigeria has have done to build a pan sub Saharan security cooperation against the continent’s security problems?. Answer; ZERO. Instead we think we are competing against Angola, continually abuse Mugabe and ridicule S.Africa for their Seleka failures. In the face of the west however we are in full inferiority complex mode.

  17. jimmy says:

    5.Algeria* why Nigeria keeps this country at Arms length is truly baffling to me.They went through unspeakable horrors in the 90s it was not uncommon for extremists to murder 900 people in one night .Short term with. Russia’s permission they would train our tankers on the T 90 and on the upgraded birds be they helios or Su.
    6. Serbia .They need the cash they have excellent arty pieces that come well recommended.
    7.Germany has a long history with Nigeria and honestly .Nigeria needs to once and for all break away from buying british tanks . Britain around the world is being viewed more as an unreliable partner that will sell to the sauds and the Gcc states who actually start the wahala in the first case. German tanks are german made and they will sell to us govt to govt,and no after eaves dropping on their chancellor they will be in no mood to listen to lectures from the west.
    8.France as some might struggle to believe do not want Nigeria in a state where their assets in Nigeria are in danger. The chief of the biggest union building the helicopter carrier has informed the govt not only will they be in breach of contract but thousands of french jobs are on the line.
    9.India/Pakistain * for Nigeria it not a deadly rivalry games it is in Nigeria gravest interest to get an integrated missile system covering the six most sensitive zones in Nigeria.
    10 .Pakistain/ India whether it is the JF 17 block 2 or 3 it is in Nigeria’s best interests to have a solid long term partnerniship with a country that is willing to share airforce technolgy.

    • Alibo says:

      Gbam!!!! Jimmy you are on point. You hit the nail on the head. Make your money from the West, buy your arms from the East and buy licenses from desperate countries to produce low tech arms, equipment and ammunitions. Take away DICON from the Armed Forces and privatize it or sell its shares to the public. Restructure it so that it becomes a profit making weapons producer with transparent books and business operations. Who was the goat that transformed a weapons company into a furniture producing company?

    • Are James says:

      Agree Germany, India, Pakistan. France is a no.

  18. Spirit says:

    My ogas, the day I saw a bag of salt with DICON logo on it, I wept. Are we preparing for war against snails/earthworm?

    FG, the way to go as suggested by the patriots on this blog are;
    1) Reverse Engineering (lets start with small and medium arms first).
    2) Patnership with countries with advance military industries (preferably Eastern Europen countries, Brazil and ASEAN countries)
    3) Public Private Patnership with the likes of Holts Marine, Proforce etc.
    4) Adequate funding of universities and research institutes to carry out research into purelymilitary and dual-use techs.
    5) Agreement for partial building/completion of military platforms in-country when to be included in MOU when ordering platforms.
    6) Licensing local industries to seek public funding and be listed on Nigeria Stock Exchange.
    7) Purchase/deployment of locally made platforms so as to encorage local indutries.

    Any country that refuses to develop its own Military industrial capability is anything but a fool. No matter how strong the friendship between the buyer and the seller of weapons are, one interests/alliance changes, its On-Your-Own o!

    • Are James says:

      Reverse engineering capability was being developed by a body called NASENI. Now that one has disappeared into Nigeria’s civil service universe of ineffectiveness. What is required are CNC machine tools, foundries, advanced CAD, advanced CAM, metallurgical research tools, precision machining equipment all backed by well trained manpower.
      There are equipment existing today that will tell you the material composition of every alloy which makes copy engineering easterly trained engineers.
      Piece of cake for any serious country.

    • Kay says:

      DICON for me serves a function, but I’ve always also considered it a ‘money sink’. A bit of money goes in for projects, production et al. Very little by way of profit is gained in the long run. They should go all out and pitch their weapons, gear, bulletproof vests and so to other smaller countries.

      It would only take a while for someone to look at the books and conclude it is a money hog,therefore recommending it for shutdown or something like that.

  19. gbash10 says:

    Greetings Superboi, I have not seen the birds again, but trust me, I’m still waiting for the useful info that we all are expecting to hear and see.

  20. COLONEL NGR says:

    Our T-55 tanks needs to be disbanded and new ones purchased. I believe it is a gradual process. Gradually, we will phase out the old tanks and induct new ones. Dealing with ukraine is a short term measure. I expect more robust agreement with russia, germany and china. These 3 countries can meet our defence needs. We also need to think about upgrading Dicon. The problem with Dicon is not the know how, but the lack of funds to be able to turn its projects into reality. Thanks Oga beeg for this info.

  21. Oje says:

    Oga Beeg, a lot has been said about the U.S and her double standards, i agree with some of them, i actually agree with most of them. Hypocritical? YES but who isnt? The American electorates vote and pay taxes for its leaders to put their best interest first (Something our own leaders should emulate). Is Putin acting in Russias best interest by dismembering Ukraine and arming them to kill civilians and shoot down civilian airlines with no apology? YES. Is America acting in its own best interest by not wanting to get bogged down with Boko Haram and Nigeria when there are bigger and more consequential geo politiking at play with NATO and Russia and China and ISIS? YES. Now has Nigerian leaders forwarded our own very best interest by going after the ”much touted Boko Haram Sponsors” HELL NO !!.

    Ive heard so many negative things being said about America but it is hard for me to imagine a world being led by Russia or China, not to mention the Taliban or ISIS. We must have our reality CHECK !, WE ARE NOT THE CRY BABIES OF THIS WORLD. We are the richest and biggest and most resource endowed black nation in the world. If America doesnt want to prioritise our problem? well they have Iraq and ISIS opn their hand, Europe had Russia carving out territory in world war 3 style. We have the human and natural endowment to win our war. Lets win and stop throwing blames.

    • CHYDE says:

      Oga Oje while somethings you say are true, bear in mind that Nigeria is not begging for freebies, we and our money, yet dem go dey blow grammer.

  22. Oje says:

    Which money? since we have our money India,China,Brazil,Russia,Ukraine all sell platforms we really need and even in some case more cost effective. If we want new Tanks why are we going to the U.S ? they don’t sell the type of Tanks that meets our requirements, the ones they have we cannot afford or maintain it. What are we so keen on buying from the U.S that is useful in our war against Boko Haram? Helicopters? we already have that from Russia. Drones? NO, Artillery guns? NO, Fighter Jets? Submarines? NO… our political cronies know how to [rey on our mentality, they should explain to us what they wanted to buy from the U.S that was declined. In 12 months they’ve given us two War Ships free of charge. Im getting tired of this ‘America is a hypocrite” banter . And please dont start with your ” we and our money” banter? The U.S has a GDP 17 times the size of the whole of Africa combined. They produce more oil than Saudi Arabia, Do you seriously think America needs our money or oil as of today? Ukraine needs our money, China needs oil, and they have what we want.,

    • CHYDE says:

      Hehehe, Oje, yes our Money, it here that we were told how the said deal for the cobra helo’s went aground, were they supposed to be for free? The deal has now gone eastwards, we were given two ships in a space of 12 months ( not that I am ungrateful) pls can you tell me what and what those ships have that makes them ‘war ships’? (pls forgive my ignorance).

  23. Augustine says:

    Well my Ogas on this blog, many good talks from your many intelligent mouths.

    My own small contribution….my opinions….may not be perfect, but these are my personal feelings :

    Proforce APC Vs Cobra APC, armour may be same ballistic protection level, but what of speed? Cobra is the fastest ‘legs’ of armour in Nigerian army today at max 115 km/h. How fast is Proforce APC/LAV to compete in battlefield race with Bokos Toyota max 180 km/h ?

    Cobra is amphibious, people do say most were purchased with Niger Delta war in view. Is Proforce APC amphibious?

    Production capacity, how many vehicles can Proforce produce per month in this time of urgent need that Nigeria is so desperately running to even South Africa that has NEVER given us one single MRAP in support of war against Boko Haram…..Nigeria supported ANC in their war against SADF apartheid days…..what a bad way for South Africa to pay us back, not even one Casspir MRAP or Ratel IFV donation.

    South Africa has over 1,000 Mortars, over 2,000 IFV-MRAP-Tank Destroyers with many sitting down in reserve doing no work, they have over 1,000 MGLs and AGLs world class grenade launchers almost all sitting down inside armoury not used not needed…..and Jacob Zuma is watching Nigeria burn under Boko Haram fire for FOUR LONG YEARS ?

    Haaa ! South Africa is wicked o !

    All we did for ANC, Mandela, Mbeki, Thambo, Makeba, all is a waste….this is Nigeria’s hour of great need, and a friend in need is a friend in deed.

    MBT, this blog arose a bit late to make suggestions on new MBT, we where busy and overlooked that area in the past one month. Oga Jimmy I remember asked for T-90, his mind was on MBT, maybe a few other ogas too have mentioned MBT, but we as a team did not give it time.

    Now deals have been signed and maybe too late to change.

    Me, I love the T-90, but I expected T-72 not T-84.

    Oplot T-84 is a world class tank and is good. Ukraine has a kind of ‘defence pact’ with Nigeria, details not published. We relied on it for emergency, buy alas ! Ukraine itself is at war when Nigeria is at war too ! Unfortunate indeed.

    Ukrainians complain, bla bla bla….our T-84 tanks are stuck bla bla bla…

    That’s what you get when you wait for war before you start to prepare for war !

    The best time to prepare for war-time is peace-time.

    South Africa, Egypt, Algeria, Sudan, Morocco, Angola, Uganda are not fools !

    Pardon me is I quote this again from this week Punch newspapers :

    “The security source explained that the Federal Government had to look elsewhere to get the equipment that were required. Some of the equipment are from Russia, others are still being expected. Nigeria cannot wait forever because people are being killed in the North East.”

    Nigeria should not have waited for about 6,000 civilians and possibly close to 1,000 soldiers (Not official just estimated from 4 years of casualty reports) to die and go to their early graves before deciding to buy T-84 tank.

  24. Oje says:

    Jacob Zuma is not spending billions of naira sponsoring Boko Haram to score cheap political point. My views here are never palatable i know but for real, what serious country will come to our aid when they have intelligence attesting to the fact that our own politicians are the bane behind this problem. You want Zuma to send South African troops to Nigeria? are you f..ing serious?

    • Augustine says:

      Oga Oje, did you see anything like South African troops in my comment ? Please sir don’t edit my comments by ‘illegal’ addition or subtraction. I said South Africa has lots of equipment they can donate as fellow black brothers whom Nigeria helped during apartheid era when they were being massacred like chicken in Soweto. Voluntary donations of unused equipment without even waiting for Nigeria to ask.

      I move the rest of my reply to the next thread which is more appropriate.

  25. Augustine says:

    The most important things to look for in judging a modern 2014 tank are :

    1. Composite armour (If mixed with Steel and ERA, Composite must be on vital parts)
    2. 120mm or 125mm main gun
    3. Anti-tank guided missiles
    4. Thermal equipment, Night/All weather sighting/targeting, Laser range finder, Firing on the move, Panoramic sighting/high image magnification
    6. Self Protection from enemy missiles (e.g Shtora-1 jammer)

    Below is the best source you may likely find on T-84 tanks full capabilities :

    Notice that this tank CANNOT be penetrated by some anti-tank guided missiles and HEAT shells even when they score a direct hit. This tank CANNOT be stopped by any missile or gun in Chad or Cameroon. This tank will drive day and night, in and out of Boko Haram infested Caliphate stolen territory and NOTHING will happen to the T-84…..Guaranteed !

    Well done Nigerian army, please get married to 100 units of the T-84 Oplot MBT now !

    http://tanknutdave.com/the-ukrainian-t-84-oplot-main-battle-tank/
    .

    • Augustine says:

      T-84 Oplot-M main battle tank costs about $4 million per unit in year 2011.

    • AreJames says:

      This is actually a very accurate description of this tank’ s capabilities under the use case of going after an insurgency. It does not apply to going against a conventional army fielding his own late generation tanks and 4th generation aircraft. Very good buy all the same.

      • Augustine says:

        Oga mi, I don’t understand your comment. Ukranian T-84 is built as option to T-90 which is Russia’s best tank against USA/NATO tanks. So how does T-84 not apply to conventional war? Show us a tank gun or ant-tank missile in Africa that can penetrate the armour of T-84 Oplot.

        South Africa, Egypt, Cameroon,Algeria, etc have no gun, shell, missile, or rocket that can penetrate Nigeria’s T-84 Oplot tank.

        Please let’s not kill a good idea and make it look like…well we just accept it like that. What would we do if Nigerian army decides to continue with T-55 and Vickers tanks only, we go carry placard go protest for Bonny Camp ?

      • Are James says:

        I am definitely for this tank acquisition don’t get me wrong. The T 90s may have a long lead time to acquire. On spares please as well, don’t be surprised there are many interchangeables with the T 72 and T 90s so the low number of T 80s fielded is probably not an issue as far as the working spares go. Also our neighbours don’t field the equivalent in terms of armour and guns so that is also a good thing. Finally, I expect the
        T 84 to acquit itself quite well against some T 90 models.

  26. Tobey says:

    Ukraine is just another western puppet…Are we going to go down this road again? Also, only a handful T84 oplots are in service round the globe..what are the chances of us getting over a hundred units? The Algerians are stocking up on T90s…they currently operate over 300 units..all fitted with ERA and ATGM capability…all brand new T90Cs for a pricey 470mUSD for 120 units(2nd batch)..now the Ugandans are trying to get their hands on the tank too…Is a T-84 tank really a good option? Compared to T90s we could have gotten quite easily and in large quantity?

  27. Alade says:

    Hi brethren, pls I’d like to knw what’s going on with the EPE rocket project, if its going & good then we shld just convert our T-55 tanks to SAMs carrier jst like the AKASH SAMs…

    • Are James says:

      Agreed. Some of the learnings from the Epe rocket launch project should start being used for smaller rockets that can be used for military purposes. Things like propellant manufacturing, rocket motor design, rocket control technology, warhead design and fuzing should start being applied in this area.

  28. demola says:

    Oga augustine said:
    “South Africa that
    has NEVER given us
    one single MRAP in
    support of war against
    Boko Haram…..Nigeria
    supported ANC in their
    war against SADF
    apartheid days…..what
    a bad way for South
    Africa to pay us back,
    not even one Casspir
    MRAP or Ratel IFV
    donation.
    South Africa has over
    1,000 Mortars, over
    2,000 IFV-MRAP-Tank
    Destroyers with many
    sitting down in reserve
    doing no work, they
    have over 1,000 MGLs
    and AGLs world class
    grenade launchers
    almost all sitting down
    inside armoury not
    used not needed…..and
    Jacob Zuma is
    watching Nigeria burn
    under Boko Haram fire
    for FOUR LONG
    YEARS ?
    Haaa ! South Africa is
    wicked o !”
    i think the level of beggi beggi on this blog just it the fan. is jacob zuma nigerias president, how much is 1000 mortars that nigeria can not afford
    abeg…. enough with the america surppose give us this or do that for us ideology.
    Obama is not our presisident,
    america has it globall war on terror,
    this is our onw war with bokoharam.
    we dont need excess defense articles,
    we dont need thier cutters, uparmoured humvee
    why the hell are we even asking for it,
    wont i rather IED kill me than beg america for MRAP
    Enough of all this boi boi mentality

    • Augustine says:

      Oga demola, you need to check war history. It is common practice to pay back those who helped you militarily when you had a war, you also help them when they have a war. That is not begging. Even the Bible says a brother is born for the day of your adversity, do you need to beg your brother for help when fire is descending on your roof and your brother has a tank of cool water with a hose and pump?

      USA gave the UK 50 destroyer warships in World War II when Germany’s U-Boat submarines were wrecking havoc in British waters.

      Nigeria can buy all the weapons we want with our oil money, but will you Oga demola be happy if you have a 4 year long cash sucking crisis and all your poor friends you helped in the past, that have now become rich, are looking at you doing nothing because you work in a bank and have good salary?

      It is good to see South Africa behave like this, and we on this blog will let our government remember the price we paid to help ANC against aparthied.

      Niger Delta proverb says….”Let us close our eyes and pretend as if we have died and see those who truly love us.”

      • doziex says:

        Oga Augustine, You are 100% right. South African blacks know they owe Nigeria.

        So because Nigeria is temporarily not in the ascendancy, they see no reason to show gratitude, or return the favor, so much for African solidarity.

        It’s time to make other friends or get reliable partners.

        We Nigerians now know that a strong military is indispensable.

        Upon solving our own problems ourselves, our African policy should be no free lunches.

        Let’s be friends to only those that want to be friends with us.

        A Nigeria 1st policy is the order of the day. Any foreign loving politician must be given a hard time in this new dispensation.

        A strong military ( NN,NAF & NA).

        Exceptional special forces.

        A strong and comprehensive intelligence service.

        Mine the Nigerian society for the best it has to offer.

        Military , university and private sector partnerships should lead the way, and no problem would be insurmountable in nigeria

  29. asorockweb says:

    T-84 Oplot’s main drawback is that there are less than 100 currently in service (There are close to 2000 T-90’s in service)

    In terms of maintenance and spares, having a large number in service can be critical.

    Both tanks are fast which is good. But the T-90 is faster and more agile – the ideal light MBT.

    And I would prefer if we use COTS engines. If we can specify commercial power plants and transmissions for our Tanks, IFVs and APCs, that would go a long way in improving serviceability.

  30. Augustine says:

    Only the army can explain why we are buying T-84. We would not know the reason. We don’t even know if the 2 units are free or cheap give away price for evaluation purposes.

    T-90 is not better than T-84 Oplot in capability. Full analysis gives the T-84 Oplot better all round capability over the T-90.

    All I care about is that our T-84 cannot be penetrated by any anti-tank missile or tank gun in Africa, we will drive into Boko Haram’s controlled towns and be laughing at the bearded criminals !

    If we have one in each town, no Boko Haram force will capture the town, the T-84 Oplot armour is simple impenetrable, me I don’t care if there are 1,000 T-90s in this world. T-84 is a newer tank and Ukraine is a newcomer to arms export market, if they market T-84 it will sell. The JF-17 Thunder we are buying, how many countries are using it now? It has a bright future.

    Gentlemen let’s not become perennial complainers, we complained about T-55 and Vickers tanks, we still want to complain about T-84, so which one now? Someone is even writing comment that T-90 is faster than T-84 and that is very wrong information.

    Why do we want to kill the motivation that made our army to buy a world class tank?

    Haba, abeg o !

    • jimmy says:

      I would be very grateful if we acquire either the T-84 orthe T-72 T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

      • cerberus89 says:

        Belarus has over 1000 units of the t 72 tank ,we can get them to sell about 300 units 4 us ,we will then contact india to upgrade those tanks to the ajeya level .since ukraine is draggings its feet concerning these t 84s

    • asorockweb says:

      Oga Augustine, left your head up and see reason.

      If we have bought 100 t-84’s. I believe it’s a good buy.

      If we have bought just 2, then my argument about the T-90 stands.

      If your tanks can’t be serviced because some obscure part of the engine broke down, then they are useless until the broken part is replaced.

      We are talking about engines and power-trains that are built by small manufacturers in a non-manufacturing country like Ukraine. Without the diversity of global knowledge and supply-chains, we can wait several months just to fix a tiny problem with our tanks.

      Again, if we have bought 100 T-84 tanks, I believe it’s a great improvement to our T-55’s and vicker tanks.

      The T-84 is a modern tank, if we have bought in quantity, it will be as effective as the T-90.

      • Augustine says:

        Oga asorockweb. I stood up for the T-84 because some commentators were beginning to ‘bad mouth’ the tank, even quoting wrong specifications to make it look inferior to T-90, the speed of T-84 is superior to T-90 and I won’t mention the name of who wrote the exact opposite of that, his comment is up page for perusal.

        Why should we complain? Why must we find fault in everything Nigerian army does? We wanted modern weapons and they are giving us T-84, are we still going to nag like housewives? We should give praise when our military deserves it.

        T-90 or T-84 or Abrams or Challenger tank, NO weapon in this world is perfect.

        Nigeria has good military relations with Russia, Nigeria has defense agreement with Ukraine. Both European nations have a hand in the T-84 and both can service it. We should not have any issues of maintenance. Nigeria bought French-German Alpha jet, the original German manufacturer closed down, we got another company to do the Alpha jet upgrades.

        I see no reason for complaints about T-84, if we have useful suggestions for the army, let us make comments positively. If we want to know why the T-84 was chosen above T-90 let us ask the army HQ.

        The 2 units might just be for evaluation or to get a few impenetrable vehicles that can ride through any Boko held territory unstoppable and unbeatable, that will win back all towns we lost to Boko Haram as long as the town is accessible by motor vehicles.

        I love T-90, I expected T-72, I got T-84….Nothing spoil, morale go high beyond roof top when Nigerian soldiers see T-84 leading then into battle against Boko Haram’s Toyota truck mounted 23mm and 14.5mm guns !

        The game changer has come home ! T-84 tank is our Voltron defender of the Nigerian universe.

        Nigerian army well done ! Parade, remove head-dresses….Top Tri…Yah !

  31. beegeagle says:

    WHEN THE PUSH TO REPLACE T55 TANKS COMMENCED

    MARKSMAN SPAAG -derived from the T55

    https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/more-on-t55-derivatives-the-marksman-35mm-self-propelled-anti-aircraft-gunspaag/

    Good morning, gentlemen. I shall respond to questions directed at me later today. Oga Asorock, seen yours. Oga Ola…a veteran with antecedents so similar to Peccavi’s, I commend your patriotic fervour. Pardon my delay in responding to your email. I shall do the needful.

    AN EXCLUSIVE T55 SHOT

    https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/first-photo-for-25-years-a-nigerian-army-t55-tank-photo-credit-nigerian-army/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=17863&relatedposts_position=0

    TYPHOON MBT, A T55 UPGRADE

    https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/typhoon-mbt-a-ukrainian-design-t55-upgradeweighs-46-tons-up-from-39-tons/

    • drag_on says:

      Imagine pointing that 35mm horizontal.
      If i was on a technical and saw that beast coming round a bend i would jump off and run.

  32. COLONEL NGR says:

    The T84 tanks is a good upgrade over our T55 tanks. I believe they are being procured on short term basis. Oga Asorockweb, we can upgrade the T55 tanks and still keep them in service. But it should not interfere with plans for a complete overhaul and modernization of our armoured corps. Oga beeg, thanks for the good work!

    • asorockweb says:

      Oga Colonel, I agree.

      I just don’t want us to throw away old equipment when our army reserves have zero tanks.

      I remember in the 1st gulf war, the US marines were still using the old M-60 tanks, while the US Army fielded the M1 Abrams.

      The Nigerian Army Reserves must be equipped and periodically activated. If we had used the wrong strategy in the last few weeks at the North East, the 7th Div would have been destroyed and we would have been compelled to activate an army reserve that have never been tested, and that has no equipment other than old rifles.

      So, as we re-equip the army, old equipment must be refurbished and transferred to the reserves, so that we have a backup; a plan B.

      Planners and managers must never rely on courage, smarts or luck. Planners and managers must assume that everything is average, including people, and play the numbers game.

      I rest.

  33. Bharat says:

    Nice tanks, is your T-84 the same specification that Thailand ordered?

  34. peccavi says:

    Do we need tanks?
    Excluding my any cavalry bias, I’ve been thinking about thee structure of Nigerias armoured forces and I wonder if we actually need MBTs?
    Except for the North centre we do not really have tank country in Nigeria, thus for defensive purposes, tank destroyeers would bebetter, wwith bettte mobility and just as much firepower, however we would lose out of the protection.
    Personally I would restructure to having 2 armoured divisions, one heavy, one light.
    The Heavy Div would have 2 Bdes of MBTs and 1 Bde of 105mm Light Armoured Vehicles and thee Light with 3 Bdes of LAVS.
    Gives us better flexibility and eay deployability

    • jimmy says:

      Oga P In answer to your question yes we need Tanks.How many I really honestly could not tell.What I have observed is that at a minimum Nigeria need Three amoured tank Brigades one which most def hasto be based in Borno the other in Adamawa and the third should be based in Bauchi where we already have our tanks This conflict highlighted the very limitations of what a light brigade can not do defend a siege Kondunga is your classic example.This is followed up by the vastness of Nigeria take Borno and Adamawa add in Sambisa Forests then you truly begin to understand why we need more Tanks .Sometimes during this conflict we have had three battles going on simultaneously lasting 8-12hours these battles honestly need to be over in a much shorter period of time more tanks.My next argument is what I believe the Army is already thinkingof:The need for a fully equipped Tank division. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

    • AreJames says:

      The problem is that tank destroyers don’t just have the passive and active protection that confers real tactical advantage in terms of armour and a functional APS.
      One could argue that a tank destroyer will take out a ‘technical’ on the field of battle but it’s armour just won’t suffice for the RPGs and recoiless rifle rounds that would be thrown at it sometimes.
      Tanks are also multi weapon platforms bringing main guns, HMGs, anti tank missile launchers and the occasional grenade launcher simultaneously to the battle field no way you get that with a tank destroyer.

      • peccavi says:

        Fair enough, that’s what I said we lose the protection of a tank but we have the added advantage of firepower and mobility. Tanks are also expensive to maintain, whilst a tank destroyer is cheaper.
        TDs can mount the same weapon systems as a tank, they just don’t have as much armour. The French have used this concept and this is why they were able to bring armour to bear so rapidly in Op Serval
        In an offensive action tanks would be preferable but against a light mobile force we need speed and mobility. The Chadians completely destroyed Libyas armoured divisions with technical armed with ATGMs and dismounts with RPGs (admittedly the Libyans weren’t well led). The Egyptians used infantry to defeat the Israelis.
        In essence other than Gulf War 1 and the 1970 India/ Pakistan war, tanks vs tank has gone out of fashion, if you mass armour it an be destroyed by armour, artillery or AH
        It is thus clear that warfare has changed from when an armoured unit dominated ‘good tank country’
        Tank Destroyers would give us the flexibility of fighting in an infantry support role as well as using them en masse to destroy or defeat and an enemy armoured formation.
        I think the mix of Heavy and Light Brigades is useful. Our terrain is not fir for classic massed armoured assaults. Thus I think a light armoured division and a heavy armoured division would be ideal for our needs.
        Tanks have their place but I think we should not focus too much on building upp heavy formation when most of our conflicts are against lightly armed dismounts.
        Even in an engagement with heavy armour, properly handled TDs can prevail. I used ith AH then they should win easily

    • asorockweb says:

      So, you are saying that we need MBTs, right?

      For the NA to regain it’s freedom of movement, we need thick skinned Tanks and IFVs.
      By thick skinned, I mean armour that can take 14.5mm rounds from any direction without endangering the men in the vehicle.

      • peccavi says:

        Yeahm I thought that was clear.
        A tank is just a vehicle that combines firepower, mobility and protection.
        My question do we need tanks is like asking do we need armies?
        The answer would be yes but we need to define what type of tanks we need.
        What are they to bee used for.
        Thus we need MBTs but I think we need to focus on having a dedicated light armoured division, that gives us firepower and mobility but less protection and a heay division that has protection, mobility and firepower.
        Most IFVs can’t take 14.5mm, the only Abrams tank destroyed during the Thunder Run into Baghdad was disabled by a 20mm AAA gun
        As can be seen ffrom Syria and Iraq anti armour missiles are making a mess or armour, thus an MBT is not the king of the battlefield as before thus we should get a more versatile vehicle

      • asorockweb says:

        Most BH trucks are armed with 12.7mm HMGs.

        BH has deployed one or two 14.5mm armed trucks. That’s why I chose 14.5mm as the cut off mark for our new IFVs.

        Quote from Wiki
        “The basic armour of the CV90-40 provides all-round protection against 14.5 mm armour-piercing rounds”
        I believe the new IFV from otokar also provides the need protection.

        Is the CV-90 light enough to be part of your “light armoured” Div?

  35. igbi says:

    The imaginary list of equipment we “don’t” need seems to be growing: first fighter jets, then mraps, then now tanks, whats next ? :
    Do we need rifles ?

    For the avoidance of any doubt the equipment is verry much needed.

  36. rka says:

    There is every possibility that some Oplot tanks have already been delivered because if you look at the logos of the 3 armed services on the Nigerian Defence HQ website, the tank portrayed representing the army looks uncannily like the Oplot. Just saying..

  37. Alibo says:

    Some good news in the fight with BH. What brand new APCs is this report talking about?
    http://saharareporters.com/2014/09/22/nigerians-troops-plan-big-push-recover-territory-islamist-insurgents

  38. beegeagle says:

    <<>>>

    Oga Igbi, I think you are being too forward but since you have judged my case and declared me unwilling to act, it does not matter what I say, so take action as you deem fit. I don’t need the drama. In all the tiffs which you have had with Are James, Doziex, Augustine et al, not one of them has sent me this kind of treatise steeped in emotional blackmail.

    Only rest assured that when I told you about the requests for you to be delisted from here, it did not come from your “enemies”. It came from people who sift ideas from here to make crucial DEFSEC decisions.

    Do what comes natural to you..

    • igbi says:

      What comes natural to me is to inform you. I am not trying any emotional blackmail neither do I have any other ennemies than boko haram and all other ennemies of Nigeria.
      But thanks anyway.

      Your blog still remains the best.

  39. Oje says:

    Oga igbi, hand over that ”thing” you’ve been taking, i promise i wont tell anyone.

  40. peccavi says:

    Oga asorockweb: yes oh, vehicles in the class of the PT 76, Scorpion, Scimitar, CV 90 family.
    Why you might ask?
    well they have low ground pressure but carry weapons that are powerful enough and with enough range to defeat technicals. Thus properly handled these light armoured vehicles can operate on the same terrain as technicals but can match them on speed and mobility but massively overwhelm them on firepower and protection.
    We have to be realistic.
    Very few African conflicts have involved massed armour. Other than Ethiopia/ Somalia, South Africa/ Angola, Egypt/ Israel how many African armies have deployed massed armour?
    Virtually all conflicts are infantry with armour in support or else Armour vs light mechanised units.
    Thus while we should maintain a heavy capability with MBTs and SP artillery, a lighter option with light tanks, tank destroyers and wheeled SP should be seriously considered

  41. igbi says:

    Thank God Nigeria knows it needs 4th generation fighter jets, MRAPS, APCs, air defence and tanks. Nigeria needs alot of them and Nigeria has the money.

  42. igbi says:

    Nigeria needs a strong military even if our western “friends” disagree. They have all these weapons with zero threat against them, yet they want to tell us that we do not need military equipment. Yeah right ! Nigeria and Nigerians think about your interests first. I don’t think I need to specify why the Nigerian military needs modern military equipment. Don’t believe anybody saying otherwise, eventhough they would come up with a plan to justify the unjustifyable.

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