NORINCO VP11 4×4 MRAP
If Cobra II can still swim then it is a better option. Someone should think of integrating its RWS with Igirigi.
Cobra, carrrys more troops. depends on cost and internal ergonomics
i am so so so so overwhelmed 2 see you back oga beegz.so much has happened in the battlespace since you went AWOL on october.BTW u caused me a heart attack.what happened…many questions i have.but i i wsh u a merry xmas and prosperous 2015…pls dont go AWOL on us again like that..i was damn worried
i will personally go for the cobra based on troop numbers…but what is the level of protection of the two
Comparing Otokar II and NORINCO VP11 MRAP is a bit difficult because they are not really the same thing. VP11 is basically an MRAP on light truck chassis-cheaper, lighter.easier to maintain and more suited to urban patrol duties(exactly what we need in all those Villages and towns up north) Cobra II is heavier and designed from scratch for secondary carrier roles of Pedestal Mounted Air Defence System. This off course means much better stability,CTIS,ABS and every other thing to make whatever it carries survive better. I also expect that Cobra II to be at least much more expensive have more amour-not too sure of what the VP 11 offers ( scanty information). COBRA II is a proper mid capacity IFV ( better Survivability) as opposed to an urban minded MRAP. Quite a number of reviews also said good things about ASELSAN Aiming and fire stabilization system that comes with the Cobra II- a necessary characteristics for a missile carrier. We should go for a mix- Cheap VP II for in-town patrol-Otokar II for heavier assault mission.
Oga beegs, what happend to the Mi-35 thread?
The IGIRIGI 4×4 is better.
Henry pls post a Pic of the Igirigi 4X4 pls, l would go for the Cobra II even if its an IFV we can customize to be an MRAP/APC depending on mission involved, as long as it can keep troop safe n attack den we need it in larger quantities dan its predecessor.
Oga Beegs Merry Christmas
I see no reason for these vehicles when we have a local alternative. It’s a waste of capital flight, and further diminishes the size of our small local defence industry.
In my opinion, the Otokar Cobra II and Norinco VP 11 are dispensable options for the military.
The Igirigi 4×4 can fill our LAV needs conveniently, neither do our troops face a serious IED threat in the North-East, comparable to threats faced by NATO in Iraq/ Afghanistan.
I think the military should rather concentrate on improving the Igirigi, or sell the program to a local assembler who can sustain the production and general characteristics improvement of the vehicle.
Not true that the troops do not face road side IED threats in the NE. The NA lost at least 2 officers (Major SK Umaru being one) and a number of soldiers in december as a result of road side IEDs because they were on patrol in soft skinned vehicles.
I didn’t say troops do not face IED threats in the N.E, fact is, the IED threats are not in a significant scale, and no MRAP would save troops from the real threats of 14.5mm mounted on most B-H technicals.
We don’t face IED threats on a level where we need MRAPS on a very significant scale.
Oga Saleh, no country can move it’s entire army around in MRAPS. War will always bring casualties. IED threat is low in Nigeria.
yes no country can and should move its entire army in MRAPs however I dont know on what scale you rate the significancy of IED threat in the NE when an army losses 10 – 20 men in december alone to it. even the US did not lose that amount to IED in less than a month despite having more troops in the middle east. Most patrols are still done with Hilux and other light skinned vehicles (Scary). we do not have capacity to mass produce Igirigi yet so we still need to procure externally in order to supplement available Igirigis. I think for now we should stick to Cobra II because of already acquired expertise in the maintainance of Cobra I. there is little online about the norinco, what there is, indicates that its basically an uparmoured truck with RWS.additionaly, Chinese light skinned vehicles in the NA are known for their high fuel comsumption which causes a logistics nigthmare.
Oga Saleh, there is no proof the army lost between 10-20 men in December to IEDS. Substantiate your claim with evidence.
Nigeria does not need more MRAPS, what we require are IFV’s, and in considerable numbers.
Actually, there is considerable evidence that the Igirigi is already in mass production, including the police unit of osun state.
MRAPS are a luxury we cannot afford, you don’t win any conflict from MRAPS, neither do our troops need them to climb mountains.
In my opinion as far as this conflict is concerned MRAPS are totally useless.
I can’t give u any evidence of that. However if u have military contacts in the NE Pls make calls.
I’m sorry Oga Saleh, if there isn’t any proven evidence, my point stand ,MRAPS are useless in Nigeria’s current conflict.
Oga Henry I just told you to call contacts in the NE where do you want me to give you evidence from when they are not published. Obviously I cant upload voice conversations. If you don’t have contacts in the NE I think you should develop some. Most info and news from there never gets to any media outlet.
Oga Saleh, yes the same way, a soldier was claiming he doesn’t have superior weapons, while posing with a type-99.
We hear stories of troops been ill-equipped, while we see evidence of troops carrying MGL’s, AGL’s, DHSK, 50 CALS, 25mm cannons, AK-74’s, Tavor-21’s etc etc
I assure you, I have more than enough contacts serving in the N.E.
Again, the IED threat on troops in the N.E isn’t substantial enough to warrant a wholesale purchase of MRAPs.
It is far better to have more IFV’s mixed with soft-skins, than to have a military moving around with MRAPS without a considerable number of IFV’s.
Have you ever bothered to find out from your contacts the quantity procured of the equipment you listed. Most troops in the theatre have never seen those items. Why do you think getting pictures of them is difficult. I won’t want to go into quantity details. When you read online issues like that, the media just attaches any picture to it. I guess you have seen pictures of francophone soldiers labelled as NA soldiers online or a sagie labelled as t 55
Oga Saleh, I do not depend on the media for pictures, this I can assure you. I can provide you photos, enough photos for each and everyone of those items I listed.
Nigeria needs more IFV and LAV than MRAPs unless Boko changes tactics. Well, we have to be ready for it, I will go for Norinco MRAP but prefer Norinco Big Foot we already getting used to in war zone.
I would prefer we fund DICON and some capable private companies like PROFORCE in joint venture deal and turn Igirigi into versions that can match Cobra I, Spartan Mk III, etc, then replace most Toyota 4×4 with various Igirigi versions…..Police, SSS, army LAV, army mobility/fast assault, infantry medium firepower support, amphibious vehicle, etc.
Nigerian market is big enough for 10,000 units of Igirigi in various versions, we should explore it.
LAV’s and IFV’s are the way forward. The Igirigi is a fantastic LAV, with modifications, it would get better. Throwing money to procure Otokar Cobra II’s isn’t a viable option for Nigeria, neither is buying low troop capacity Norinco VP11’s, when we do not face a significant IED threat.
An MRAP won’t save troops from RPG fire, neither would it save troops from 14.5mm, so why buy them.
MRAP is not designed to operate independently. The issue is that there are still too many soft skinned vehicles in the NE.
Are Soft-Skin vehicles the reason Nigeria lost large swats of territories, abandoned CS VP3 MRAPS in cameroun and tons of armoured equipments in other areas of operations, while a cowardly general, currently facing military tribunal charges, burnt all his new Armoured vehicles ?
Pls that is another discussion I won’t want to go into. This thread has a heading. You do not know what happened apart from what you heard from the media. There is more to every story, have you inquired if they got lost as a result of no navigational equipment and ran out of fuel in hostile territory. I do not know what happened in the case you cited and not aware of any general facing CM for a case of this nature. however you can call to find out too
I was only citing evidence known to everyone, or you wanna claim Gwoza, gambarou ngala, dikwa, marte aren’t in terrorist hands?
I want to know how MRAPS would have saved these Areas. You can enlighten me.
I rest my case, on situation in some of the towns u listed Pls read the comment of one of the contributors in the December threads or better still call your contacts can’t do more online
My question is not on the current condition of the towns, rather they are on, how the town would have been saved by MRAPs?
Thank you. A typical anti al shabab convoy of the kenyan army is a mix of MRAPs, T 72 tanks, IFVs and as few of trucks and hiluxes as possible. Every element. of that convoy knows. what. to do at the objective. and how to. deploy synergistically to ward off an. ambush. It is not just the weaponry but the mix and the tactics.
I am. Completely with Oga Henry on this one, this is the only chance we ll have to develope on our IGIRIGI with real life situations once the insurgency is over it would be back to business as usual. The Igirigi can be improved on, so when I even saw this thread, the first thing that came to my mind was ” what happened to our cheaper home grown Igirigi?”.
We could look into countermeasures if against IEDs and get them in weeks. If we keep buying bits by bits hardwares, we’ll get grinded to a game of attrition. Work with what we have. Adequate planning and of course enough firepower, then we’re good to go.
The Igirigi could be maintained, produced, repaired serviced with readily available materials, the Igirigi should be improved on.
In my opinion, neither..we need more IFVs..This war never needed MRAPs, we bought them still…Though a new IFV is on scene…armed with a 25mm canon and a Dshk at the rear..I saw it on Henry’s NL thread..Its exactly what we need..our IGIRIGI too has joined the war in large numbers and is now also armed with Dshks. Problem is, we don’t have the specs for the vehicle. What we need, is to invest in our IGIRIGIs, and stock up on the new IFV that came into the war a few months ago.
Gentlemen, I beg to differ on the issue that the military does not need MRAPs in this current conflict. In as much as i agree that IFVs must be acquired to provide the necessary firepower, I strongly believe that we NEED these armoured troop carriers to safely transport our troops from point A to B. We should ‘ ve learnt a thing or two by now from the mistakes of the Pakistani military that still uses soft skinned pickups. Even the Indians have learnt their lessons in Kashmir, hence the use of Indian copies of the Casspir MRAP. And so did the Sri – lankan, British, Americans, and even our brothers in Uganda. Must we wait till there’s a spike in the use of road side bombs, VBIEDs and IEDs before we purchase these vehicles? No. Do keep in mind that apart from the much needed protection, these MRAPS carry more troops than soft skinned pickups.
That said, I agree with Henry on the need to invest in the locally produced Igirigi MRAP/APC. It’s high time we mass produce this vehicle and come up with new designs.
This Cobra II looks like Alpine Pitbull, although with Hull.
OGA SALEH, OGA HENRY
Far be it for me to interfere into this argument from a technical point of view, however this is one thing I do know America’s losses in Afghnaistain and Oga Peccavvi can interject if he wants during Gulf1 and Gulf 2 the Yanks lost very few Mraps or let us even go heavier M1 ABRAMS TANKS, prior to the surge the US started losing at least 1 ABRAMS tank a day in fact you do not have to believe me go on Y tube there are more than enough pictures on how to do you know what to an M1 Abrams tank ……. using an IEDS and yes they were losing more than 10 soldiers a month at one one time.
There is however is no concrete evidence that despite everything going on that there is a massive proliferation of Roadside bombs turning our T55s or T72s or IGIRIGIS into twisted scraps of metal, I however agree with OGA SALEH that transporting our troops in these thin skinned Toyota Hiluxes is a reason why this war has continued – and why we have lost officers like Maj Umar, however the Americans will tell you they lost one of their best officers a French born LT. COL in a HUMVEE to an IED .
My honest suggestion will remain this for this war to end:
1) Get rid of the Thin skinned Hiluxes
2) Have a combination of LAVs, IFVs and increase the number of IGIRIGs
3) Bringing up the rear should be the big foots / MRAPS and the Tanks, OGA P once asked the question why do we need Tanks like the T-72 , my answer remains the same to take out a Technical from 1 KM away.
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