SUGGESTIONS FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE HULL & POSSIBLE COMBAT CONFIGURATIONS OF THE IGIRIGI APC : MAKE YOURSELF HEARD

About beegeagle

BEEG EAGLE -perspectives of an opinionated Nigerian male with a keen interest in Geopolitics, Defence and Strategic Studies
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

33 Responses to SUGGESTIONS FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE HULL & POSSIBLE COMBAT CONFIGURATIONS OF THE IGIRIGI APC : MAKE YOURSELF HEARD

  1. lachit says:

    @beegeagle
    u have many resources
    do u by chance have a picture of igirigi “naked frame”
    ie the pic of hull frame/structure without the sides/top panels

    so that we can see the internal structure for present and prospective load bearing points including distribution of load ie troop/ weapon station arrangement etc

  2. am not really a tech knowledgeable person and most of what i say is based on my own brand of common sense. that said….there’s little info on the Igiri, so i dont have much of a foundation to build suggestions on

    • lachit says:

      i was in the same position like u but i made a effort and then got interested in defence tech.
      if u want i have a small suggestion on how to go about it.
      1. google in the image tab and go through as many APCs as possible,
      2.if somthing catches ur eye then get more info on it.
      3.compare it with Igiri and see if it can have the same feature added to it.
      4.then if the feature can be added to Igiri google for technical details on that feature.
      it might not work out in the first try but rest assured i am confident u will be pleased at the second or subsequent outcome.
      two things to remember
      “there is nothing new under the sun”
      and
      “there is always a first time for everything”

      this was always my aim to see the ogas getting involved in practical defence applications.
      i commend beegeagles initiative and hope if the results r favourable to see it extended to other platforms.
      young nigerians who r studying and visit the blog will get inspired to move to defence related industry.
      u can bet on that.

      looking forward to ur and other ogas suggestions on igiri eagerly
      regards

  3. Ola says:

    Sir Beegs, thank you for opening this discussion, been waiting for it! Here is my token
    In my opinion, the Igirigi should be reconfigured into three variants.
    Configuration:
    1. Standard 4×4
    2. Extended wheel base 4×4
    3. Extended wheel base 6×6-heavy.

    a. The standard 4×4 should have a water fording ability of 1.2m while the extended 4×4 and 6×6 Each should have a water fording ability of 1.5 meters. That means a higher clearance.
    The vehicles should all either have no mud guards at all or the mud guards/wheel arcs should be bevelled down at 60-75 degrees from the chassis. The version for the police may be fitted with those wire meshes on the window but it would be recommendable for the military version to be equipped with double-paned, collapsible armoured wind shields for improved visibility for the driver and the person riding shotgun.
    Side and rear exit doors are a must. Preferably, exit doors that will blow outwards if breached.
    Integrated tire inflating system CTIS.

    Protection
    Each should be designed with the ability to withstand two simultaneous grenade explosions under the hull or wheel arc or the blast of two landmines simultaneously. The front should be able to withstand HMG fire and the engine compartment should be able to withstand a 50 Cal riffle, conveniently. Minimum balistic protection to the weakest parts should be a minimum of B6.
    Integrated Fire extinguishers with nozzles located at a minimum of 4 corners of the vehicle

    Armament
    1. Standard 4×4 variants 1. twin turret equipped each equipped with twin 12.7mm MG; 2. a single Remotely operated weapon station+grenade launchers.
    2. Extended wheel base 4×4 variants equipped as 1. twin turrets and automatic grenade launchers; 2. equiped with 20 mm Semi automatic cannons
    3. Extended wheel base 6×6. This should serve exclusively as a multirole platform for
    a. an IFV platform featuring 90mm canon and 2×14.7 mm MG as secondary armaments
    b. mortar.
    c. MRL
    d. Enhanced Artillery Observation System for the artillery unit
    e. SAMs
    f. An automated quad 23mm AA gun station
    g. command and control vehicle/electronics warfare/mobile comm. station
    h. ATGM platform
    i. Ambulance

    I seem not to be able to articulate my thoughts well on this.

  4. Trigger says:

    Lets see! The igirigi is am APC first and foremost. Going by global standard it should have more pronounced V-hull for IEDs.

    Secondly, the driver and commander doors should be located at the mid-section of the hull as an emergency exit/entry.

    Thirdly, firing ports should be provided following global standard (but in my own opinion, I dont recommend it, it will draws too much fire from the enemy, since it’s just an APC).

    Fourth, i dont know the type of suspension used but i recommend independent suspension for increased mobility.

    Fifth, all igirigi should be fitted with communication & navigation equipments plus friend or foe identification gadget.

    Lastly, a 6×6 version with increased structural strenght should be considered.

    It is an APC so it armamnents should reflect it role. (INCASE SOMEBODY WANTS TO SUGGEST INSTALLING A 105mm SMOOTHBORE GUN)

    Anti-tank version should be considered.

  5. Roscoe says:

    As per Trigger, more pronounced V Hull design for under carriage, modular package for the vehicle (including engine should be drop in, transmission should be easilly drop in as well as quick change accessories) Cage drop in for anti RPG. We cant use this easilly in uneven terrain so its still a road dependent vehicle (convoy etc).

  6. abduleez says:

    The Nigerian Army on Wednesday said it has arrested 33 suspected food suppliers to Boko Haram terrorists in Azir-Wajiroko road, Damboa Borno State.
    The Nigerian Amry spokesman, Col Sani Usman, revealed this in a statement.
    Usman said 33 suspected Boko Haram accomplices were arrested with large quantity of food-stuffs meant for the insurgents at Korode.

    http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/09/troops-arrest-33-boko-haram-food-suppliers-destroy-ieds/

  7. Kay says:

    Without knowing full specs, we may not be able to give the full recommendations.
    However, first to answer this question should be soldiers who have made use of this in the field under combat conditions and apply its use to savannah, desert and marshy regions like we have here.
    Apart from maybe retrofitting smoke grenade and better protection for the gunner, I’ll say a few variants may be useful from medical to rocket launcher types. Modular additions can be done and remove regarding the situation.

    Heavier armaments should be confined to an IFV, an entirely new model.

  8. Bigbrovar says:

    I saw this on twitter. A video of troops repelling ambush from BH along the Gwoza express way which still has some BH activities . th video reveal the need for investment in more Armoured troops carriers especially MRAPs.. We need to withdraw all Toyota’s from front line role.. The video also showed lack of HMG or mortal for suppressing fire especially easily neutralize enemy fire quickly.. If this guys had been swammped by BH with bigger guns this video would not have made it out.. https://twitter.com/sampiranty/status/643885613305987072

    • rugged7 says:

      But that vehicle in front is routine civilian JTF light transport.
      Probably heavier armour could have been in front and at the back of a possible convoy.
      The demeanor of the troops indicate that they weren’t even scared. They did not hurry to egress the area. In fact, they actively engaged.
      They must have had significant back up for that level of confidence…

    • rugged7 says:

      This is not for political arguments.
      My interest is purely on military/security comments from Buhari…
      There are certain comments bordering on french role in francophone countries and occupation of Nigerian territory which i think the president didn’t handle too well…

  9. Augustine says:

    Igirigi technical data is not available anywhere, so if we are to recommend improvements we have to make many assumptions.

    One thing Nigeria needs to know is that if they want to succeed in medium level local weapons manufacturing/medium defence industry, they must have export sales revenue in mind. So, if you have export in mind, why hide Igirigi specifications? Speed, chassis torsional stiffness for lateral load distribution, engine horse power, travel range, interior electronics/instruments, etc are part of what the buyer looks at online on internet before even thinking of calling us on phone to ask for field test and evaluations.

    If you cannot export, you must be a very rich country to build a local medium defence industry that will survive doing medium level things, or else you just stick to low end rifles, machine guns, and grenades like DICON.

    DENEL South Africa went broke when exports were low some years ago and needed government cash bail out. The Pakistani defence industry is slow to grow because they have low exports. India has large local demand, but still groans under the pain of costs in developing local weapons. Brazil too looks for partners on some projects to share costs in joint venture. ENGESA Brazil became bankrupt when export sales died, and the great Cascavel armoured fighting vehicle died with it.

    Igirigi needs some improvements, research and testing will cost a couple of millions of dollars to bring it to a world class level of cheap, exportable, and physically attractive (Not beautiful, but attractive vehicle physically) enough to make some countries put down their hard earned dollars to buy it.

    We don’t even know if Igirigi has night vision combat capability…..we also don’t know it’s present cost or selling price. Too many unknown parameters. However, Marshal Beegeagle has spoken, so let us talk my fellow patriots….

  10. Augustine says:

    One of the keys in the hands of Nigeria that we have not used is COMBAT HISTORY, and the Igirigi has it. Many expensive LAVs around the world have not been tested on the battlefield. A good selling point for Igirigi both locally to NA, NAF, NN, and NPF is the combat records it has during the past 2 years of the Boko Haram war.

    Having succeeded in battle (I notice we did not lose any to Boko Haram among captured vehicles, maybe the Igirigi hardly breaks down in use, or has good get away escape speed and drives well off-road). Good record as far as we know today and can assume.

    How much armour protection does it have as at now? Is it same hull ballistic protection level as the Otokar Cobra? The V-hull shape is missing on Igirigi.

    Who will produce the Igirigi in large numbers? Nigerian army alone or a joint venture with a private company? FG needs to clear this hurdle fast. NA could need up to 5,000 units of Igirigi to replace soft skin Toyota Hilux on the battle fronts. How many troops doe it carry? I don’t know, say 6 troops as a guess judging by it’s 6 side windows/ports, means 5,000 Igirigi will serve to move 30,000 Infantry men around the battle frontline….what if Nigeria has a 120,000 man army with 60,000 infantry men? Then 10,000 of the remaining 30,000 infantry troops will be moving around in soft skin Toyota behind the front lines in our own bases/territory, while the other 20,000 troops will need to be in an IFV on the front lines in battle, of course the Igirigi should remain an LAV for light armour light armed transport vehicle role. We need a proper medium armour heavily armed IFV to complement it on the field.

  11. Augustine says:

    IGIRIGI will do well if improvements are made before large scale production.

    1. A more appealing hull, neat and smooth metallurgy/body construction. Nice but not necessarily beautiful, just make it look more like a factory product than a workshop product.

    2. Is it built on a Ford chassis? Try and test a Toyota chassis variant

    3. Main armament, single 20 mm autocannon for most production units

    4. Few 40 mm automatic grenade launcher variants

    5. Few 4 barrel 12.7 mm gatling gun variants

    6. Few anti-tank guided missile variants (only single tube reload-able missile launcher)

    7. Ambulance variants

    8. Telescopic mast battlefield surveillance TV camera variants

    9. Smoke grenade dispensers

    10. Night vision infra-red headlights for vehicle

    11. Night vision for commander, driver and gunner on hatch main gun

    12. Long range radio communication hardware for commander

    13. All round body ballistic protection against small arms fire, shrapnel. V-Hull shape and under chassis armour to resist anti-personnel land mines

    14. Road speed must be at last 100 km/h, no compromise.

    15. Drivetrain must be 4×4 wheel all terrain drive, no compromise

    16. Air conditioning for interior

    17. Optional removable amphibious kit for water fording variant

    18. Must be built with at least 80% local content, apart from imported engine

    19. The local content must include the main 20 mm gun

    20. Selling price must be cheap, say about $150,000 per vehicle

    Keep it cheap, keep it simple, produce in thousands of numbers.

    I think 2,000 units of improved Igirigi will give terrorists a hell of trouble.

  12. G8T Nigeria says:

    mcshegz, I admire your good stewardship to your nation and it forces in combat. You have indeed demonstrated great will to support your Armed Forces despite the ever noisy black waters surrounding our dear nation Nigeria. Interestingly, if some of our past fore fathers had done their best to promote a secured future where people commit themselves to truth and national identity, the present would understand that sometimes, it doesn’t take all thing to be correct before standing up for something. neither, does a nations military explains itself completely before earning your support in the midst of battle. I therefore submit that your continued show of love is highly admired. I salute you. Welldone.

  13. beegeagle says:

    Can we develop a MRAP variant of the IGIRIGI APC?

    This is the UNIBUFFEL, reverse-engineered from the South African-made Buffel MRAP by the Sri Lanka Electrical and Mechanical Engineers. The unit cost of 4 million rupees (US$28,581) is simply the stuff of dreams. It means that each unit costs less than a Toyota Hulux truck. Incredible really.

    IF we can bring the cost of an Igirigi APC down to US$50,000 then we are actually going to be able to ramp up the numbers in service in such a way that they replace 80% of the Hilux vans in the combat role.

    The Hilux trucks can then be pulled back to rearguard utility tasks and passed on to the Police, Civil Defence and National Emergency Mgt Agency

    @LACHIT. No, my brother. I do not have such a photo of the Igirigi now. Used to have them but they were lost during migration from an old email acct

    • Ola says:

      SIr Beegs, to be honest, when I look at Igirigi I think of MRAPs and a modular platform that can birth a couple of variants of vehicles fit for purpose. My firm but humble opinion is that all Igirigi should be built to MRAP status, that was why I wrote the description I wrote above. MRAPs are fast, agile, tactical vehicles primarily and offering troops medium/high level of safety comparable to APCs, and flexibility that a traditional APC does not offer, I believe this is why a lot of armies are turning to MRAPs today and using them in dual roles as APCs as fit for purpose. If Igirigi is built as MRAPs of different variants, then it can serve both peace time and war time missions, play different roles and reduce duplicity. Even richer nations do that these days, they have fleets of MRAPs that does everything from troop tactical transport to recon. This may mean a radical departure form the current drive system and baseline configuration. I will advocate for Mercedes Unimog or Ford Silverado 3500 or similar chasis and drive system to be the platform for whatever NA builds.
      I looked up a popular army website here for APCs listed by countries, this helps me to put my opinion in perspective.
      http://www.military-today.com/apc.htm

      • Augustine says:

        Oga ola, remember that MRAP vehicles’ purpose is majorly protection from anti-personnel, anti-tank land mines, and backyard made deadly IED.

        The function of an APC or LAV is different, if Igirirgi is good enough to resist a 2 kg anti-personnel mine, the deadlier 8 kg anti-tank mines will be left for MRAP to deal with.

        MRAP is expensive to buy, expensive to maintain long term on the battlefield, consumes much oil and fuel, needs periodic mechanic attention. One MRAP price will buy four 4 Igirigi.

        Yes I agree with you that Nigeria needs locally made MRAP, but we also need basic Igirigi LAV or APC variant in thousands, then we can build locally at Proforce factory a totally different MRAP vehicle in the class of the REVA MK III that we imported.

  14. the cost of this UNIBUFFEL is astounding. NO offense to you Oga Beegs but i had to go and confirm on wikipedia. its so cheap i have doubts. even for a mere APC its cheap. if the specs are true then we should consider studying thier model and partnering with them to produce a similar vehicle

    • Augustine says:

      Oga Adetayo, manufacturing cost of an MRAP is hard to peg below $250,000. However, cost will vary based on the MRAP engine power and quality, size of hull, length of chasiss. quality of build and metal works, hull armour thickness, level of anti-tank landmine ballistic protection, gun/cannon armament firepower, night vision equipment, communication equipment, interior extras like remote weapons control, instruments display panels, TV camera, etc.

      Igirigi may cost about $100,000 in current configuration, no certain data.

      Estimates could be about : $25,000 for the Ford chassis only with no body, $45,000 for the steel armoured hull/body/chassis/roof hatch and run flat tyres, interior fittings for $5,000, interior instruments and equipment for $15,000, browning machine gun for $10,000.

      You have already hit factory production costs of $100,000 without night vision equipment and thermal vision is expensive if you want quality night vision.

      Never compromise armour protection quality to cut costs, you could lose soldiers lives for armour defects. Poor job on armour welding cost Ukraine a big contract for BTR-4 sales to Iraq, over 300 units remaining on order was cancelled.

      • xkennx says:

        Is it built on a Ford chassis? Try and test a Toyota chassis variant
        – Its on a Ford F550, Toyota at this time does not have a chassis that is even 1/2 the strength as the Ford SD line. The Toyota Tundra is a weak chassis, the Hilux is a toy and the HINO we built only to move goods and weak power plants.

        Main armament, single 20 mm autocannon for most production units.
        – Its important to not mix the weapons with the actual vehicle. Weapon pkg should be easily installed and removed. Most of the vehicles are meant to be used for peace time rolls.

        Few 40 mm automatic grenade launcher variants
        Few 4 barrel 12.7 mm gatling gun variants
        Few anti-tank guided missile variants (only single tube reload-able missile launcher)
        – Same as above this should be a modular system that can be installed and removed within a matter of mins/hours

        Ambulance variants
        – Thats a common, but should be done with the help of medical division and not the vehicle manufacture. The capability of cross-decking common platforms is the ideal situation. With modern conflicts now changing dramaticly its more important to have a vehicle that does all jobs 75%+ instead of a car that only does 1 job 100%. We can all sit here and discuss what is needed, but dealing with Africa the people “buying” are not always the best informed or experienced to do it.

        Smoke grenade dispensers
        – The 40 and 38mm grenade launcher does this.

        All round body ballistic protection against small arms fire, shrapnel. V-Hull shape and under chassis armour to resist anti-personnel land mines
        – Cabin is armored to FB6 protection already and body is slopped to give additional protection for higher caliber rounds.

        Road speed must be at last 100 km/h, no compromise.
        – Vehicle based on the F550 can reach 120-140khm without issue. The 6.7L Ford diesel detuned to 300hp to run on poor quality fuel.

        Drivetrain must be 4×4 wheel all terrain drive, no compromise
        – F550 is 4WD with front locking HUB

        Air conditioning for interior
        – Dual A/C front is OEM and the rear has its own compressor/condi/evap

        Optional removable amphibious kit for water fording variant
        – Amphibious vehicles are designed for that purpose with. This APC was designed to be a low cost to build and would require major changes. As far as fording you should have a meter of capability but the 2nd A/C system was installed under the vehicle so could cause some damage to it.

        Must be built with at least 80% local content, apart from imported engine
        – The only thing local you will be able to do is the labour, Steel (true ballistic you will have to source outside the country – most of the proper suppliers are Euro and then American) The A/C system will be imported also. Ballistic glass is not easy to produce with out millions in infrastructure.

        Selling price must be cheap, say about $150,000 per vehicle
        – From a manufature stand point its not going to happen. I saw in your post where you though the Chassis is $25,000. Go head and double that and then there is more cost.
        You have over $15,000 in tires/runflats/wheels already. Steel you are not to far off. The comms/vision items you can range from $40,000 – $200,000 in a matter of mins. Turret bearings can be range from $10,000 – $60,000 depending on capacity to hold weight/weapons.

        If you go with RWS, some of the more simple ones are in the $150,000 – upwards to $300,000 not including the weapon itself.

  15. Kay says:

    Might I add about the ambush video, in urban and assymetric wars as this,good situational awareness is key. Few addition of systems to a convoy, base or whatnot can give significant advantages when ambushed.

    Qinetic Gunshot detector, Thales, Rafael spotlite M, Swir and boomerang are examples of what can be fitted on vehicles, soldiers and bases to detect incoming fire and trace enemy position. Now say you pair that up with automatic gun turrets and grenade launchers?

    While this can be bought off the shelf, can also get a few professionals to start working on it. Hundreds of people can be poached via LinkedIn, eg. to start working on something like this. So many possibilities. It’s left to the authorities…

  16. Ola says:

    Here is an interesting documentary on AFVs from the US point of view. Although the history of MRAPs and Stryker in the US was not fully told, but it’s still a good documentary with insight into the evolution of infantry fighting vehicles.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s