BORNO STATE GOVERNMENT PRESENTS THIRTY TOYOTA LANDCRUISER TRUCKS & JEEPS TO THE NIGERIAN ARMY AS TOKENS OF OPERATIONAL SUPPORT

Gun trucks…wahala comes to town. BH, take note

Chief of Defence Staff, General Abayomi Gabriel Olonisakin standing beside a SUV variant of Landcruiser expresses his gratitude to Governor Shettima for the supportive gesture on behalf of the Nigerian Armed Forces

Chief of the Air Staff, Air Marshal Sadique Abubakar (second right) beside a SUV variant of Landcruiser

PHOTO CREDIT: NATIONAL HELM

About beegeagle

BEEG EAGLE -perspectives of an opinionated Nigerian male with a keen interest in Geopolitics, Defence and Strategic Studies
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112 Responses to BORNO STATE GOVERNMENT PRESENTS THIRTY TOYOTA LANDCRUISER TRUCKS & JEEPS TO THE NIGERIAN ARMY AS TOKENS OF OPERATIONAL SUPPORT

  1. rugged7 says:

    All imported and yet they couldn’t make some purchases from proforce or any of the made in nigeria car plants?
    hmmm, issokay

    • Are James says:

      This is the correct spec of Toyota that we want though.

      • rugged7 says:

        I am not arguing with that.
        But if you want to grow your manufacturing military industrial complex, you have to support your local producers.
        It cuts down forex loss and provides employment for the youth as well..
        We still haven’t yet gotten it into our thick skulls that the time of free oil money is over forever…

  2. Henry says:

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/independent/azerbaijan/exhibition/pictures/Gurza_2_light_patrol_vehicle_ADEX_2014_International_Defence_Industry_Exhibition_Baku_Azerbaijan_2014_001.jpg

    The sort of vehicle we should really look at developing for Special forces, Recon, Border patrol , Interior ministry.

    We already have the Leopard PF2 that could play such a role, but the Leopard looks a bit too heavy.

  3. Henry says:

    All vehicles are doable for them. There is absolutely no difference between what our Nigerian Proforce does and what Streit group or any other APc manufacturing company does. Infact, Lagos state had to send some of there streit MK II APCs to proforce defence so that proper armouring can be done on the vehicles.

    Police AK-105s were shot at the vehicles and the bullets passed through. Same problem policemen in Ebonyi state had with the APCs the government of Ebonyi purchased from the UAE. All the policemen who were inside the APC were killed after rounds penetrated their armour.

    There simply is no rocket science in APC or MRAP manufacturing, only problem is in the sort of support local authorities give there arms manufacturers.

    • Are James says:

      So how about giving ProForce and other local manufacturers guaranteed orders worth $300million, they take that to the banks and get retooled.
      DICON should be spinned off from MOD control entirely and then they can make $100million dollars in profit in conjunction with Ajaoukuta and HMT Oshogbo by developing manufacturing lines to produce armour plates and turrets.
      All these are practical engineering management decisions that are doable now

      • Augustine says:

        Trying to identify the guns of those new Toyota trucks, photo image too distant, I can’t see the guns clearly at all. Looks bigger and Shorter barrels than Browning and Dshk. Looks thick like AGL. Would be glad if the guns are higher caliber than the underpowered 12.7mm we use too much. Big guns kill big problems. Let Nigerian army step up it’s COIN firepower, NATO forces learnt this big lesson in Afghanistan and Iraq.

        Let’s also notice that these donated Hiluxes come in different specs, the army rceived a mix of full body SUV and open rear bed truck plus double crew cabin, smart purchasing manager with common sense.

        Oga Henry, Proforce vehicles meet American and European armour standards. The American and Canadian LAV manufacturers have court cases over failed armour ballistic protection level advertised, ordinary rifle bullets have been penetrating some of their expensive overpriced fancy beauty queen light armoured vehicles.

        If every Nigerian state join hands with their local governments plus Abuja, and donate 30 Toyota 4×4 Hiluxes to the army, our troops will have over 1,000 vehicles, just ask Proforce to up-armour the trucks and NA mount 14.5mm ZPU-1 guns on 75% of them, while the remaining 25% carry LG-3 automatic grenade launchers. Boko Haram will die like housefly wey fall inside hot pepper soup.

        I hope it’s not true that MoD is deliberately avoiding buying Proforce products so that we can continue to import and they do some looting of money via importing with the usual well rehearsed defence money stealing tactics.

        Proforce needs a very big purchase order to raise money and expand it’s production factory installed capacity.

        Toyota still annoys me, we buy so much from them and those Japs still tell FG that they are watching the market viability before opening a Toyota assembly plant in Nigeria. They want to continue dumping fully built vehicles on us. Maybe it’s time to start threatening them with Nissan, FG should talk to Toyota and warn them that Nigeria will not continue to be a dumping ground for their vehicles. Importation is sucking away our hard earned dollars and we lose out on local job creation for our millions of jobless youths including engineering graduates. FG, please rise up in national economic interest and call Toyota franchise owner in Nigeria and warn them.

        When person head dey hot reach one level, him go stop buying Toyota with 90% technical reliability and start buying Nissan with 80% technical reliability, when you get tired of being treated like a fool.

      • Are James says:

        My brother, this Toyota quality is uncanny. No other company or brand matches it.
        I had a conversation two days ago with a Lagos airport taxi driver, a second hand, ten year old Camry has not experienced failure in the last three years he has been using it. With that superb ToC, you don’t wait for Toyota to come to you. You go to them like the former Minister of Trade did with Nissan. We need Toyotas in ‘000s as NA gun trucks to replace the Isuzu Tiger NPF vehicles and want to keep operational costs down.

      • sabatino9 says:

        Spot on oga @AreJames on the reliability of Toyota. My dad used one toyota corolla for 27 years and still sold it to some mechanic int he area who raised the suspension and shocks, and was using it to carry heavy goods from Ladipo. No wonder pictures of the IS fools shows them using Toyota trucks in thousands. You can never go wrong with those work horses

  4. Number one says:

    “An armed society is a polite society”

  5. Augustine says:

    Good job Borno governor. Donations welcome, NA needs more and more 4×4 vehicles.

    See customs/shipping importation stickers on the Toyotas. Maybe some from the manufacturing plant in South Africa where we create jobs for other countries. It’s the type of Toyotas we want, but we want them made/assembled in Nigeria. We Nigerians buy more Toyota vehicles than most countries of the world where Japan cited production factories. How many is Kenya buying locally, even Canada is not buying Toyota like Nigeria, yet Kenya has Land Cruiser factory and Canada has full factory for manufacturing, not assembly, but manufacturing of Toyota vehicles of all types.

    Also gentlemen, have we any info if these donated trucks are armoured from factory?

    • Augustine says:

      NA waa o, my first comment appears after the last comment. Switched positions. Funny. I wanted to thank the donating governor first.

      • Augustine says:

        We hear senators are planning to buy over 100 brand new SUVs for themselves using government funds for these official vehicles. Well all senators are already multi-millionaires in private capacity and they all own several vehicle already while their high salary/benefits/allowances/total emoluments level can get them a brand new SUV each on lease or outright purchase. By the way, did the outgone senators walk away with the official cars Nigerians bought for them?

        Can Nigerians, NLC, TUC, NANS, CLO, etc, march 10,000 people to Abuja senate building as soon as they resume in January and demand a show of PATRIOTISM by senators asking them to convert their planned 108 SUVs into 200 units of Toyota/Nissan 4X4 trucks and donate to Nigeria army operations in the North East war theatre?

        Nigerian troops are riding ‘Molue’ style and Tipper lorry into battlefield in year 2015. Let us show care for these soldiers sacrificing their own blood and lives so the Senators and citizens can remain alive.

        Thank you.

  6. ifiok umoeka says:

    Still on ‘make it Nigerian’, we have over a hundred piranha wheeled and 300 4k 4FA tracked APC. We also have 120 AML 90 and 70 Cascavel amour cars, what are the possibilities of harvesting the turrets (190) with their 90mm guns and mating them to the APC and using them as fire support vehicles (after the appropriate upgrade in engine, suspension, armour, electronics etc) as well as a precursor to building our own APC led by NAEME, DICON and Proforce?
    Then the turretless vehicles can have 30mm RWS (+ ATGM) to replace the turrets, better radios, drive trains, suspensions etc and have them deployed as scouts?
    Just thinking!

    • Augustine says:

      Oga Are James, I agree with your points on Toyota performance reliability, however Nigeria did go to them in 2014 after we got Nissan to come produce in Nigeria. Toyota said they are waiting to see if Nigerian market is viable for manufacturing, that’s an insult. How is Nissan manufacturing in Nigerian assembly plants newly opened in Lagos? I think Toyota is taking Nigeria for a ride and they want to keep eating our now scarce dollars by making one of the biggest Toyota markets in the world to remain import dependent.

      Americans and Canadians buy more of Ford, Chevrolet, General Motors, and Dodge trucks. This I can confirm to you. Yet Toyota set up manufacturing plants in those countries. The Canadian market is so unrewarding for Toyota up till now and they are reducing production there, shifting to make more vehicle units in Mexico.

      Nissan trucks are used off road worldwide and may be just 10% less reliable than Toyota and needs a little more regular maintenance. See, there is a time a nation gets aggressive in protecting it’s own economic interests. I think the South African Toyota corporation may be the one pressurizing the Japanese HQ not to establish a manufacturing plant in Nigeria, maybe the South Africas see the loss of their African market Nissan monopoly as a Nigerian bite into their cake and they don’t want to lose Toyota monopoly seeing how much they export to Nigeria.

      I would say Nigeria should experiment and show Toyota the Nissan competition, go to them and say, we will give 50% of your usual Nigerian government LPOs to Nissan until you start local Toyota manufacturing in Nigeria, we have imported enough fully built products for over 40 long years.

      Let the army start testing Nissan Titan trucks in the harsh semi-deserts and Nissan Frontier trucks in the cities, let us see how they perform technically, off road 4×4 capabilities and any maintenance matters relating to usage reliability.

      Oil dollars at near $30 per barrel, we cannot afford being slaves to importation of what we can assemble, at least we should get a little local material content and job opportunities for thousands of unemployed Nigerian youths including graduate engineers roaming our streets while the Toyotas we import are creating tens of thousands of jobs in South Africa.

      Nigerian government should damn the consequences and damn Toyota corporation, they don’t own us. We own our dollars.

      https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DF42XH2weETc&ved=0ahUKEwiKzYK-zv_JAhUI5YMKHSWZAPUQuAIIJDAA&usg=AFQjCNG0l2McT4P4Whr6aPqm7PZmw7EOOg

      • Augustine says:

        Furthermore, Nigeria can also start testing the Nissan Frontier 4×4 as a direct competitor to Toyota Hilux 4×4. The Nissan Frontier can be used as city/urban operations vehicle for Nigerian police, navy, air force, and urban/city based army units.

        Army field units in off road harsh terrain can stick to Toyota Land Cruisers 4×4.

        If Nissan was nice enough to heed Nigeria’s call to establish production factory in Lagos, I believe it is only fair that they get reasonable federal, state, local government, ministries, departments, and government agencies sales patronage. FG did it for Peugeot automobile in the 1970s-1990s when PAN had Peugeot assembly plant in Kaduna and FG made sure they got huge purchase orders from government.

        Why should government favour Toyota that says our market needs to be watched for viability when we buy more Toyotas than the other countries that have the production plants and are just exporting to us like Nigeria is a dumping ground?

        Let us reduce government and it’s MDAs as well as states and LGs patronage of Toyota by 50%, then give the LPOs to Nissan to compensate them for producing in Nigeria and employing Nigerian youths.

        Hey ! Stop wasting Nigeria’s scarce dollars Toyota imports ! We want to buy vehicles with naira, and must be assembled or made in Nigeria. You Toyota Nigeria Limited, I suspect you are part of the conspiracy, but try prove you are not. Go tell your Japanese HQ that we are ready for a fight and Nigeria will give 50% of your market share to Nissan unless you open a manufacturing plant here in Nigeria 2016….just wait till you lose government patronage to Nissan.

    • Are James says:

      Smart idea from a smart young man

  7. rugged7 says:

    Boko Haram battle: On combat patrol with Nigeria’s army
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35175244

  8. zachary999 says:

    Line items from NAF Budget proposal, like I said weeks ago the Pakistanis have shown great commitment to NAF

    PROCUREMENT OF VARIOUS AIRCRAFT SPARES PURCHASE OF 10 X SUPER MUSHAK TRAINER AIRCRAFT
    PROCUREMENT OF 2 X MI-35M HILCOPTER
    PURCHASE OF VARIOUS ARMS AND AMMO E.G 30MM CANON, 68MM SNEB LIVE ROCKET, F3 & F4 PRACTICE BOMB ETC
    PROCUREMENT OF 3 X JF17-THUNDER-MULTI ROLE COMBAT AIRCRAFT

    • rugged7 says:

      What’s special about the Mushak?
      What happened tp the L39 trainers?
      Do you mean pakistan is assisting with procurement of MI-35M?
      Why would Nigeria purchase only 3 if they have come up with the decision to use the JF17?
      That doesn’t make sense.
      Well, unless they are hiding other purchases…
      If you have any additional info, would appreciate it…

    • Akin Oges says:

      Deflating really. Anyhow, we might be getting the JF17-Thunder (miserable/inconsequential 3 units). The yawning capability gaps continues; with a rogue neighbour having air-superiority over a strategic country like Nigeria. Shaking my head… It is well.

      • Are James says:

        You actually believe Nigeria will buy 3 JF 17?
        This is just 2016 deliveries as part of a contract.

        The Super Mushak might be the only route to competency / type rating on the JF 17 for pilots but why buy 10 of those scraps?

      • Are James says:

        We probably signed a contract for one / two squadrons and are getting three this year.
        Yes you are right , Pakistani pilots, instructors and engineers are coming in dozens

      • Are James says:

        We probably signed a contract for one / two squadrons and are getting three units this year.
        Yes you are right , Pakistani pilots, instructors and engineers are coming in dozens . It is a no brainer with F7s and JF 17s

      • Henry says:

        The comments by @Arejames on the JF-17 seems more plausible. However, since you aren’t in the inside, we cannot say for certain.

      • sabatino9 says:

        I’m with @AreJames on this. The high number of trainers points at one thing, we are getting minimum of a squadron or two of the JF-17 which shares a similar instrumentation outlay with the Super Mushak. Although we can onlyl speculate until with see deliveries at the TAC hangers.

      • Akin Oges says:

        Oga Are James, over the years I have come to attach serious weights to views expressed by yourself, Ogas Beegs, Jimmy, Henry, rugged7, zachary999, Augustine, Ola, ifiok umoeka, (the inimitable) Igbi, Xnur44, mcshegz, Capt Tobias, Saleh, Obix, Centenary, doziex and many more highly valued contributors. However, on this particular subject, I would believe when I see. And given your razor edge sharp mind I am sure you can smell my exasperation. Nevertheless, I pray this administration comes through with fit-for-purpose platforms for the NAF, in practical good numbers. A very Blessed New Year to the Beegeagle family here.

      • sabatino9 says:

        This continuous secrecy of the Nigerian military on purchases only aid looting and corruption. In this present age and time, I still don’t get the idea of Nazi style secrecy in procurement especially now that we are in the good books of the west and the equipments in question are not even under any threat of being cancelled or vetoed by the west. Na wah o!!

      • Deway says:

        Are James and others, the Super Mushak is nothing but a basic trainer. No different from the Air Bettle. And if the thinking is to replace the old air bettles, why procure only 10? They are not expensive. Secondly if we really and truly ordered 2 squadrons of the JF17 ( which i doubt very much going by past procurement experiences), I would expect we receive about 6 in the first year not 3. The NAF has been about this aircraft for a while now so 3 as a first for a 2 squadron procurement is very unlikely and quite insignificant. Secondly, we shouldnt be taken by surpriase if they procure Block 1. Na siddon look for now. 68mm SNEB: we continue going for unguided rockets, not bad, but I hope we complement with guided munitions. Question is “Why is the Nigerian Armed Forces too shy and/or afraid to take bold steps”?

    • giles says:

      wich one is super mushshak,A29 is beta.hope we would not be regretting dis later

      • sabatino9 says:

        A29 equals to automatic Western interference, which isn’t an ideal situation if we are to learn from history and the Jaguar debacle (I still get angry anytime I remember this). The Jaguars being grounded coincides with the beginning of the lack of interest in buying top of the range jets by the NAF and the total regression of the birds in our inventory. If we are to cross the T’s and dot the I’s, linking the two events wouldn’t be way off and our corrupt policy makers were given a very valid excuse to shortchange us through secret purchases, all in the name of avoiding sanctions.

  9. CHYDE says:

    I only wish these governors would be donating T90 tanks to the army instead of pick up trucks

  10. Henry says:

    Zachary999, what about the 6x MI-35M Helicopters ordered under GEJ and confirmed by the Russians, is that deal still ongoing, and are these 2x MI-35M additional procurements made or part of the old deal.

    • Are James says:

      Good question to @Zachary999.

      Also important, Super Mushak can be modified to carry six ATGMs and 20mm auto cannons

      • sabatino9 says:

        @AreJAmes, do have an idea of the armour on these Super Mushak? if its light skinned like the Alpha Jets I would rather with got the Yak-130 with 6 hard points and would also prepare our boys for the SU-27/30/35 (hopefully, pardon my long-throat on this).

      • rugged7 says:

        I really find it hard to understand why we don’t align with Russia in the significant purchase of aircrafts or tanks?

        Is there any bad blood between Moscow and Abuja?

    • zachary999 says:

      Deal is still on and funding was from part of the loan from the Russians. This 2 are additional platforms.

      • gbash10 says:

        @ rugged7,recall the execution of Wg Cdr Ben Ekele,Sqd Ldr A A Ahura and co,the Russians were very much pissed when they requested to exchange prisoners for those MiG-21 TOP GUNs but the IBB government said ‘NO’,during the shipment of munitions for early MiG fighters,the Russians supplied WW2 iron bombs to the NAF,the first shipment of Mi-35attack helicopters ordered by Gen.Sani Abacha,was speculated to be refurbished choppers.Hence, there is that mistrust between the NAF and Russia.
        Recall when the OBJ’s government wanted to refurbish our MiG-21 fighter jet fleet,the NAF refused to award the contract to the OEM,then Mikoyan Aircraft,and gave it a joint Romanian/Israeli company forcing the Russians to NYET(NO) way,that they will not supply spare parts.
        The only solution is to gain the trust and confidence at the highest level for both sides,that is,President Muhammedu Buhari and his military top brass must lead a delegation to Russia to interact one-to-one with the Russian President,Vladimir Putin and his military leaders,else,there will be no meaning arms deal with Russia.
        We need the Yak-130 jet trainers,SU-30/35 fighter jets,Mi-28/26/171 choppers,Pantsir AAGM,S-400 Triumf/SA-21 Gargoyle SAM system,T-90S MBTs,frigates and submarines.

  11. rugged7 says:

    Oga Beeg,…
    Do you have any idea if our young soldiers/officers or special forces operators are embedded -in the field- with other countries fighting active insurgencies?
    e.g Algeria, Egypt,Israel, Iraq, kenya, uganda,somalia etc
    All as part of their training/learning curve?

  12. ifiok umoeka says:

    The Mushak (or the super variant) are basic trainers to the extent of my knowledge…like the air beetle with some swag. I don’t see the correlation btw it and the Thunder! There are @ list 2-3 qualifying planes btw it and the Thunder! Pakistan uses K8 and J7 b4 the J17!
    That’s not to say that they can’t be bought but let’s bear in mind that its a basic trainer!

  13. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Sabatino9, the aircraft has no armour. Its a propeller light basic trainer with a light load and speed! It has it uses, but its best suited for basic training. In other words, they aren’t a replacement for the A-jets. The Yaks are the way to go though, I totally agree

    • sabatino9 says:

      If this is the case, I think we should just restart the air-beetle program then, except we are getting the Super Mushak for free(although I doubt this considering the number we are getting) as a deal sweetener for the JF-17 deal. The super Mushak costs approx. $4.6 million each x 10 would be $46 million. let say subsidised to a minimum of $30 million, why don’t spend that on the down payment for 10 Yak-130 or get 2 for evaluation @ $15 million each. Or get SU-25 forefoot @ $11 million each x 3 units in 2016 and 3 or 7 more in 2017.

    • Are James says:

      It is confirmation of extensive haul of aircraft from Pakistan. That is what we are saying. If you are going to have two generation of NAF pilots flying JF17 block II and III then it is a given that the Paki instructors and OEM may prefer the Super Mushak for the most basic training and doctrinal issues before pilots then move to L 39s, F7s and finally to JF 17. As we speak now, it is sad to report no single JF 17 simulator available anywhere on earth so that is an issue . On top of that those machines are just about USD 3.8million each and they are easily converted to gunships and ATGM deliverers.

      • Are James says:

        Experienced NAF pilots moving direct from F7 to JF 17 now would be few and would have to be trained in Pakistan

      • sabatino9 says:

        @AreJames, the pictures of the Super Mushak cockpit i reviewed looks not like the JF-17 block I, but like a toned down version of the JF17 Block II’s cockpit. But my main grouse is the cost and the huge numbers we are thinking of, but this wouldn’t be a problem if we are certainly getting the original 40 units of JF-17 reported last year.

        @Ifiok Umoeka, the K8 and J7 both have a different cockpit to the Super Mushak and JF-17, the K8 especially has a lot of analogue gauges and switches similar to the ones in older jets/helicopters

  14. rka says:

    Although I am sticking to my seeing is believing mantra, the 3 JF17 Jets are most probably part of a multi-year contract as happens with other countries.

    Pakistan also has a requirement for these Jets, so perhaps the manufacturer can only supply 3 extra Jets in 2016 but may ramp up in the following years.

    It will at least give pilots the opportunity to train on the Jets in anticipation of further deliveries.

    We go dey look with open eye.

  15. gbash10 says:

    @Zachary 999,thanks for the heads up, since I last posted a comment on a mysterious fighter jet conducting aerobatic maneuvers over TAC,that you later clarify to be L-39,a fighter jet fly in to day.
    Though I was indoors when it flew in, the sound and sonic boom was similar to that of the F-7.The characteristic conic sound from the delta wings.

  16. lachit says:

    SAAB made MFI-15 Safari was developed for military pilot training. To improve the Safari’s military market appeal, Saab developed the MFI-17 Supporter, fitted with six underwing hardpoints for light and practice weaponry, giving it weapons training and light COIN capabilities. Production ended in the late 1970s after about 250 Safaris and Supporters had been built, mostly for civil customers.

    Pakistan bought 18 Supporters, while 92 have been assembled locally by PAC from knocked down kits and a further 149 were built locally by PAC. It is named Mushshak (Proficient) in Pakistani service. In 1981, Pakistan acquired sole manufacturing rights of the Supporter.

    The Super Mushshak is the upgraded version which meets the requirements of a modern primary training syllabus and is an ideal basic trainer for basic flight training and instrument flying.

    it can carry 300 kg external load (including pylons). but there are no armed versions in existence in Pakistani air force but can be done if requested because its predecessor MFI-17 Supporter was designed as such.

    by the way there are no trainer / 2 seater versions of jf 17 , after the intermediate stage training on K8 trainers Pakistani pilots use the f16 2 seater for final training before jumping straight to fly the JF- 17 .

    what route the NAF will use for flight conversion to JF 17 will be interesting.

    • sabatino9 says:

      Thanks for posting this here @Lachit, was thinking of doing the same with the cockpit. It would be nice if you can help with the two cockpits (JF-17 block 2 and Super Mushak).

      • sabatino9 says:

        The gap created by the non-availability of a two seater variant of the JF-17 could be the main reason why the Super Mushak is considered. Given the fact that our main trainer jets (alpha jets) have been converted to F-16, SU-25, SU-27🙂 as the case may be. It almost feels like we went to sleep for so long and now we are making it more difficult to upgrade. By now if we followed the ’83/ ’84 trend, we should be in the hunt for the Raffles/Typhoon/F-16/F-35 because of our inventory and negotiating powers, and not some Super Mushak and JF-17. But like the saying goes, “half-bread is puff-puff”

      • sabatino9 says:

        **”half-bread is better than puff-puff”

      • sabatino9 says:

        **Rafale/Typhoon/F-16/F-35

      • lachit says:

        Super Mushak can never fill the role of the trainer for jf 17, because it is a low speed basic trainer which is used to train rookie pilots to get the feel of flying and instrumentation familiarization .

        dedicated supersonic / transonic trainers and 2 seaters can only stimulate / duplicate flight conditions like spin control / spin recovery / stall conditions / flight boundary control etc etc at supersonic / transonic speeds otherwise a pilot when faced with such situation will have 1-2 seconds to make a decision or he will crash.

        that is why every fighter aircraft has a trainer version so that it can stimulate / duplicate flight conditions as expected when flying solo.

    • Capt Tobias says:

      Oga’s the Saab MFI safari was flown extensively in combat by the Biafran Air Force as the Minicon Mosquitos or Biafran babes and accounted for a number of operations during the Nigerian civil war, it was armed with a rocket launchers/pods under wing and it’s activities are the core of the air war book written by Capt Augustine Okpe ( The Last Flight), It dealt extensively with the capabilities of this aircraft.

  17. lachit says:

    @are james

    moving from j7 straight to jf 17.
    if I know anything about fighter pilot flight conversion training, it is a very tough ask.
    it might lead to needless attrition.
    Pakistani pilots use the f16 trainer versions which has modern fly by wire redundant carefree and far forgiving to pilot errors before flying the jf 17.
    f7 trainers will not be up to the mark to stimulate the flight characteristic of jf 17, so as I see it
    1. a supersonic trainer will have to be procured
    2. or the training period on jf 17 will be stretched into a long time much more than other aircrafts.
    in short the flight program will acclimatise the pilots to jf 17 by taking it slow, and might include ground controlled (ATC) training instructors.

    2nd option seems feasible.

  18. gbash10 says:

    @Sabatino9, I concur with your comment on the Yak-130 Mitten Advanced Trainer jet.
    Comparatively, the Super Mushak is much more maneuverable than the Air Beetle.I will post data later.
    In order to gain quick proficiency on the JF-17 Thunder Blk 2 fighter jet, the NAF should have ordered at least 6units instead of just 3 units. Now if the excuse is that the Pakistani Air Force also have its requirements, then the Chinese should fill the gap by building and assembling the extra requirements.The PAC Kara will then install the some of the core softwares and avionics for us.

  19. gbash10 says:

    @Gen. BEEG, it would being nice if you open a new thread on the NAF’s proposed acquisition for 2016,with particular emphasis on the JF-17 and the suitability of the Super Mushak over the Air Beetle.What do say Sir ?
    This is our time, I mean the right time to preach!

  20. lachit says:


    super mushak cockpit display

    there is negligible difference between jf17 block 1 and jf17 block 2 cockpit display configuration.
    the cockpit layout was copied from the gripen which was once evaluated by Pakistani airforce..

  21. lachit says:


    there is negligible difference between jf17 block 1 and jf17 block 2 cockpit display configuration.
    the cockpit layout was copied from the gripen which was once evaluated by Pakistani airforce..

  22. lachit says:


    super mushak cockpit display

    • Are James says:

      @lachit
      One smart young man here suggested arming DA 42 with the lightest ATGM and canons in existence and sending them after the increasingly agile BH,
      I however foresee such a role for Super Mushak as we speak
      Also what is your take on the feasibility of licensed production of this particular design of Super Mushak in Nigeria?

    • lachit says:

      first as of now armed version of Super Mushak does not exist.

      Nigeria can license produce Super Mushak if the Pakistanis agree to it, and if Nigeria is going to induct it in large numbers only then will it make sense commercially.
      and then Nigeria can tinker around Super Mushak to fit weapons to it (logical step).
      as I said Super Mushak has 300kg load capacity including weapons pylon, however if only 1 pilot fly’s it then the ammo/weapon load out will increase, or a powerful engine is another option.
      I can only speculate because finally it will depend on NAF operational requirements based after evaluating Super Mushak flight characteristics and suitability to fit into the role of a light COIN aircraft.

      addition of weapon pylons and weapons alters the aerodynamic characteristic significantly so a detailed study / evaluation then necessary up gradation has to be done first.

      but personally if u ask me I would prefer scorpions, fa 50(s.korea) or yak 130 since they r buy 1 get 3 free kinda aircrafts.
      1.trainer
      2.coin / medium multi role
      3.ISR

  23. lachit says:

    @ifiok umoeka
    “Pakistan uses K8 and J7 b4 the J17”

    wrong Pakistan uses k8, f16 2-seater/trainer version and then jf17

    • sabatino9 says:

      Thanks @ Lachit, but if NAF is getting JF-17/FC-1 why not go the route of the PLAAF by getting the Hongdu L-15 Falcon or the JL-9 which both have a speed of Mach 1.5 and are not as expensive as the JF-17

      • lachit says:

        yes good option Hongdu L-15 Falcon is a good choice.

        actually moneywise / commercially it will make sense to order (say) 20 L-15 and 40 jf 17 as a package directly from china.
        cost benefits will be huge plus for such a large order soft loans will be easily provided by china plus dedicated maintenance facilities / weapons etc will be accesseable since ur buying directly from the OEM and they manufacture it, the Pakistanis will have nothing to loose since they will get the royalties but Nigeria will stand to win in every way .
        since it will deal directly will the OEM (chinese) , delivery time factor , procurement cost , spare , maintenance cost, upgrade ( MLU ) options , weapons /sensor package will be easily accessible from the vast inventory held/developed by the Chinese OEMs and will not be limited by a third party countries own requirements.

        I hope u get my point of view.
        don’t look at it from the narrow prism of me being an Indian.
        I am suggesting a better deal for Nigeria where she is the winner all the way.

        at the least if any of you are businessmen then u can/ will learn / understand that it always makes sense commercially and every other way to go directly to the source for any deals / procurements😀

        Nigerian arms procurement has been a mess because they buy everything from everybody except the source (OEM original equipment manufacturer ).
        while most of countries world wide go the country of the developer (OEM) to buy the weapons.

        lastly forgive me if I am wrong
        to err is human

      • lachit says:

        “to err is human ”
        actually I meant
        to think differently is human😀

      • sabatino9 says:

        @Lachit, isn’t weird that all the options available (M-346, JL-8/K-8, L-15 Falcon, KAI T-50, Textron Scorpion) still leads back to both the Yak-130 (perfect choice) and the K-8 which is equally good.

        M-346 – $15 million – cancelled program
        L-15 – $14 million – still undergoing development
        Scorpion – $20 million – under development
        Yak-130 – $10 million – available off the shelve

        Mushak????😕

      • lachit says:

        @sabatino9
        I think the super mushak is kind of a sweeter for a deal involving jf 17 acquisitions if the news about these are correct.

        NAF will need basic trainers in large nos because it is the basic requirement for flying so if they get it cheap and with TOT then it ii a good deal

  24. ifiok umoeka says:

    This Lachit guy sef, u post most of what I wanted to post Lol! Because of the device I use, I need to type and edit using memopad! Well, I’ll still go ahead and post them…hope u don’t mind

    • lachit says:

      really😀
      I wish u were a girl hehehe or do u know any girl who thinks alike
      contact me asap. a oga in need is a oga indeed😀
      I desperately need a lady luck as my life is a mess right now just like Nigerian arms procurement (cheek in tongue)😀

      • jimmy says:

        OGA LACHIT
        It be like say we go need find you one fine Woman from Calabar, or Lagos or Fulani girl wey go take of you
        (Translation it is increasingly becoming apparent that we on this blog need to find you a wife from either of Calabar, Lagos or a Fulani woman).

      • lachit says:

        lolzz it was a joke, plz don’t take any offense

        also no disrespect but Fulani people are kind of aggressive aren’t they.
        read about it.
        and looks like u want me dead on my wedding night😀
        no thanks.
        I pass
        hehehe

  25. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Are, we don’t need Pakistanis to train us in basic flying. Pls don’t get me wrong! I have nothing against the grandson of the Biafra Babes but they are not LIFT and familiar as it may look…if it does, it can’t replicate the flying characteristics of a J17! In fact, I think we should reach out and grab a haul of 48, 12 in broken down parts and 36, we produce under license! As for the J7-J17 transition, few as the pilots may be, that may be the obvious way to go! It will be shorter than starting from scratch. Moreover, they will still need a fast jet transition and the available jet will still be the J7!

    As for basic training, we don’t have a problem with that! We have issues with frontline platform unavailability and obviously trained pilots in that regard!
    Go for the entire pack! Get new or upgraded L39s, Mb339s or K8s and then get the yak mittens for LIFT! I don’t think the J7 and J17 share anything thing in common save weapons!
    Thus, grab 30 J17s minimum (24 single seater, 6 2 seater) over the next 2-3yrs with a comprehensive maintainance package as well as weapons! I think they come with plug and play capabilities so we can us weapon from all over the world!

    • lachit says:

      no 2 seater jf 17 exists as of now and maybe till 2-3 years if not more,
      to cut costs the Pakistanis use f 16 trainers and the Chinese have not developed one since they don’t fly the jf17.

    • Are James says:

      Everything agreed with except the premise that NAF bought Super Mushak for fun. Far from it. There is a lot we don’t know

    • Are James says:

      The cockpit design is a good enough reason to buy Super Mushak to train new pilots who are eventually going to fly JF 17s. I don’t agree with all explanations that flight characteristics alone are the dominant factor in supersonic aircraft training aircraft. The entire workload of flying is in the cockpit design and ergonomic familiarity is important. For supersonic training Nigeria already has the FT-7s which are from a similar stable.

    • lachit says:

      LIFT (lead in fighter trainers) are primarily used to train the WSO (weapons station operator ) of 2-seater fighter aircrafts like SU30MKI SU34 etc.
      that is to train both the pilot and the WSO/ co pilot to coordinate / operate together.
      secondary function is to emulate avionics and stores-management capability bypassing operational conversion training to a certain extent.
      eg yak 130 will emulate true-to-life combat situations / flight performance of SU30 etc so cutting down training time on su30 itself.
      but it will not be able emulate the same for jf 17 (as of now) unless the Russians programmes the handling flight characteristics etc of jf 17 into yak 130.

      as of now it will perform as a advance trainer (not a LIFT) for NAF untill its flight controls are programmed to emulate the jf 17, by the Russians.

  26. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Sabatino9, while cockpit familiarity is relevant in transiting to higher performing aircraft, flying characteristic is more important! The Mushak’s top and cruise speed are about 30% that of the K8

    With that done, we need to look @ a medium/heavy MRCA with Mig 35/Su 35 coming to mind! While I favour the later, the former will be sharing the same engine with the J17 and this will simplify logistics while complicating strategic vulnerability! However, even if we also got the later, we’ll still be @ the mercies of the Russians from where the engines come! That’s until the Chinese make a breakthrough in engine tech.
    My biggest issue with the J17 however is the lack of a 2 seater (and this IMO is worse than it lack of a simulator) and it engine!
    Otherwise, I would go with the J10

  27. ifiok umoeka says:

    That said, we must find a way to court and connect with countries who in the future will give us options and India is one of them! 10-15yrs from now, their AMCA will come online baring any unforeseen circumstance. Depending on how we play our politics, it could present us with valuable options as I don’t see us having achieved sufficiency in that regard! How we deal with Pakistan 2day will decide how we deal with India 2moro!
    So I would say in the spirit of non alignment and real politik, reach a deal with India to acquire an escort type vessel based on the hull of the Kamorta with a stealth superstructure!

  28. gbash10 says:

    @ sabatino9,I have watched the YouTube video of the Yak-130, I opinion is that the NAFshould go for this bird,however, if the Chinese would agree to ToT on the acquisition of the Hongdu L-15 Falcon advanced trainer jet, then it would be good for our nascent aircraft industry.
    we should be aware that the Yak-130 has a radar while the L-15 does not.Some times I wonder why our air force is still flying the Alpha jet when it was long recommended by the then CAS,Air Marshal Paul Dike,when he appeared before the then NASS Committee on Air Force.It was in that appearance that he informed the entire country that the NAF had only three(3) operational Alpha jets and one(1)Charlie C-130 Hercules transport plane to the surprise of the whole Committee members and the Defence Reporter from different media houses aroud the country.

    • sabatino9 says:

      @gbash10, the L-15 is the best option, the only caveat is that its still under development and only 3 prototypes has been supplied to the PLAAF, who should naturally be the primary user. The only available option right now would be Yak-130.

      Only God knows why we are making extra effort at snubbing Russia in this time of need when they have the capacity to supply and arm the needs of the Nigerian Airforce 100% without needing any other country’s input.

      Let us pause for a moment and imagine the NAF having the following assets from Russia alone:
      30 x of any mix of these – Helics – Ka-52, Mi-24, Mi-35, Mi-28-havoc, Mi-171sh, Ka-60
      15 x Trainer Jet – Yak-130
      30 x Ground attack – Modernised Su-25, Su-24, Su-34
      30 x Multirole fighter – MiG-29, Su-30, Su-35
      12 x Air-superiority – Su-27
      4 x Aerial Refuelling – Ilyushin Il-78
      4 X Transport – An-124 Ruslan

      We need to parley with Russia ASAP and stop chasing shadows looking for substitutes.

      • Are James says:

        With the Russians it is useful to look at actual deliveries compared with the large orders they have on books that they have piled up and are struggling to meet abd ask ourselves some questions.
        This is also why we need to be careful using when using this word ‘ capacity ‘.
        Apart from SU 25, MI 35M and SU 24 , I don’t see impressive capacity to supply from Russia on all these platforms listed. They are also on a re armament and modernization drive so their own forces are direct competition for some of the aircraft here. How many on this list have export versions we don’t know even now. Having an export version makes procurement faster for foreign customers.
        Let us not forget that the JF 17 is an export directed aircraft built from scratch as that. How many Russian platforms are that now.
        We typically would have to wait at least three years to get any of most of the aircraft you have listed here.

      • lachit says:

        “Let us not forget that the JF 17 is an export directed aircraft built from scratch as that.”

        not correct.

        China and Grumman (USA) signed a $550 million agreement to modernize 55 J-7 Fighters under the project called “Super-7”. However the project was cancelled due to political problems and significant increases in the cost.

        As a substitute to Super-7, China started the FC-1 project with the acquired expertise and technical inputs from the super 7 programme.

        lack of interest from PLAAF in FC1/JF17 due to availability /development of better J10 multi role aircraft left CATIC (China Aero Technology Import and Export Corporation) worrying, it continued development paying out of its own pockets.

        however in February 1992, CATIC invited Pakistan to invest in the project in return for huge Transfer of Technology .
        but by then the JF 17 development was almost complete except for some avionics and aerodynamic fine tuning.

        so the myth of “export directed aircraft built from scratch” falls flat

  29. lachit says:

    @ifiok umoeka
    ” I think they come with plug and play capabilities so we can us weapon from all over the world! ”

    plug and play capabilities has been stretched too far.
    in real life it takes lot of effort time and money.

    u cannot just plug and play a Chinese or Russian weapons and use it on a NATO aircraft and vice versa.

    Weapon integration is, in significant part, a problem of matching the mission avionic resources of a platform to those of a weapon system
    plug and play capability involves Aircraft, Launcher & Weapon Interoperability via standard planning (Technical Architecture) , Common Store Control Service , Universal Aircraft/Store Interface Concepts , eg. UAI, Mission Planning Systems , Aircraft Specific Implementations (Plug and Play) , grid computing compatibility , certifications etc etc.

    plus u will need object codes from the OEM of the weapon and the launch aircraft.

    eg Textron charged around 100-200 million dollars to integrate the CBU 97 bombs on Indian jaguars via plug and play modular interface. plus it took 2 years or more I think.

    so it is not as simple as made out to be

  30. Ola says:

    Just wondering aloud, why would Nigeria go to buy Super Mushak in preference to Pilatus PC-9?
    May be slightly less expensive but should focus only be on cost? PC-9 offers better and broader training capabilities than the Mushak. I would not put it beyond the possibility that it is because information of the cost of acquisition of PC-9 would eventually come out meanwhile the cost of acquisition of the Mushaks would never reach the public, so all deals (good, bad and ugly) are closed behind doors as usual. In any case, I have a hard time believing anything regarding acquisition until I see the equipments in operation with NAF!
    @Sabotina, I have 2 possible answers among others, as to why Nigeria is not buying directly form Russia;
    1. Some government officials believe boot licking and following the dictates of foreign governments at the interest of Nigeria is the right way to go. They need to realise that rather than playing the good boy while the country is being run aground, the best way to go is a non-alignment way. It was the same approach that turned the military of a country like Nigeria into peace keeping police rather than a military force it should really be.
    2. People are not honest and serious procurement. Nigeria has a crop of highly trained and schooled officers and government officials, so I don’t blame it on ignorance. I rather blame it on a greater problem of unseriousness, lack of patriotism, and short sighted profit fuelled by greed at the expense of the nation. Bear in mind that it is not their children that would be flying whatever it is they buy, also for land systems, it is not their family members that would be at the receiving end of inferior procurements or extremely inadequate acquisition. Some people have family investments and permanent residences abroad and if Nigeria will burn, they care less, so long as the money continues to flow, irrespective of what they say in public.
    I’ve been getting some new insights into military spending in Nigeria from 1999 till date. While not talking further, it suffices to say that Nigeria spends enough money on military every year to support a small but decent military industry at home and a well kitted and modestly equipped armed forces. It is however not so because of dishonesty. This dishonesty is actually frustrating some sincere friends of Nigeria who would sincerely pass on equipment surpluses to Nigeria for free and for cheap but are waiting to see Nigeria put up some good and honest effort.

    • sabatino9 says:

      @Ola the problem with the PC-9 is that it shares the same Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-62 turboprop engine used on the Super Tucano which is susceptible to western interference and control and it also deviates from the direction of the JF-17 which is part manufacture by the same PAF as the Mushak.

    • Capt Tobias says:

      Oga Ola, Apart from the US engine restrictions, the Mushak is a basic trainer and the starting point for pilot training just like the British Bulldog , Nigerian Air Beetle usually piston engines and requiring low speed ( below 200Knots) and high maneuverability to enable the novice pilot to comprehend the handling lessons. The PC-9 is an advance trainer offering more high speed and introduction to fast jets training,this are equipped with turbine engines and display jet like handling characteristics, This class of trainers ( speed as of 250 – 350 knots) is inserted into the training syllabus before the training jets ( Alpha Jets , Hawks / RAF) to reduce the time spent on actual jet trainers before converting operational pilots to actual line jets ( Tornados, Jags, F16s, etc).
      This was the original job for the NAF’s A-Jets ( advance trainers) to prepare pilots for conversion to the Jaguars and the then MIG21s, while at the same time carrying light operational deployment and a less expensive way of building up,the flight experience of the pilots/crew ( low operating costs to the front line heavy metals ).

  31. Augustine says:

    My honourable Ogas, I salute you all.

    Please try to see the NAF planned purchase of JF-17 Thunder as a victory for this Beegeagle’s blog. This blog has hammered on the defence gap dangerously existing in Nigerian air space because of the lack of a 4th generation jet fighter while Chad flies 3 units of MiG-29 jets with 25 BVR missiles, thus achieving TOTAL air superiority over Nigeria and endangering both our air force and our army. Nigeria became unsafe if any external aggression should occur from Chad.

    Never mind the only 3 units on purchase list, the official NAF recommendation stands at 25 to 40 units of the jet. FG controls the money and budget allocation. NAF will only spend the limit of money it has.

    Don’t feel sad it’s not Su-30 Flanker jets, I had told us all before that JF-17 is what NAF has recommended after many evaluations and no need to waste our time crying for Su-30 Flanker that will not come unless major policy changes happen in NAF in the future. They control the money in NAF bank account, not us my brothers. We are patriots who love Nigeria and we have done our part by making recommendations. NAF makes the final decision.

    Let us support NAF on their decision, and be happy they did not order more of the obsolete F-7 jets second hand from Pakistan, or else what would we have done than complain? The ex-CAS bought more Alpha jets, the CAS before him bought no jet at all, the ones before that CAS also bought no jet so why should we complain if Air Marshal SB Abubakar has done in 6 months what all other NAF Chiefs of staff have all FAILED to do for 30 years when oil money was flowing like river water in Nigeria?

    I appeal to you all my ogas, let us salute the man that is about to bring a change to Nigeria’s jinxed destiny that made us backward in air superiority for 30 years. MiG-29 came to market over 30 years ago as a 4th generation jet fighter and cost about $10 million back then, did any NAF chief buy one?

    JF-17 Thunder Block I variant came to market almost 10 years ago, did any NAF chief of staff or FG president buy it?

    Air Marshal S.B. Abubakar, we on Beegeagle’s blog say mu gode so sai. You are about to break a 30 year old NAF jinx and bad omen of poor air superiority capability. Please sir, kindly let it happen that this planned JF-17 Thunder procurement deal is quickly successful and the jets are inducted into NAF service da sauri, da sauri a shekarar 2016.

  32. sabatino9 says:

    @Lachit, your explanation on the similarities between the Yak-130 and the Su-series, lends credence to the direction of getting the Mushak. Owning to the familiarity of the pakistani pilots and instructors with this platform and the usage of similar weapons systems on both platforms. Also the complexity of “plug and play” as highlighted by you also justifies the direction of the Mushak. At least this looks like a step in the right direction, considering the paucity of funds and the corruption / lack of sincerity of purpose of the past military chiefs. It would be foolhardy to assume that we would get an hypothetical 40 units off the shelve when the primary users don’t even have access to such huge number of units being built at a go in one full calendar year.

    I believe there’s a lot we don’t know and based on the order for 10 units of the Super Mushak, it show one thing which is the direction we are looking at in the foreseeable future. The urgency and the availability of these platforms looks reasonable enough right now, unlike the phantom procurements of the past, where realistic numbers are not listed in the yearly budget.

    Rather than criticise the orders we should encourage the current NAF, owing in part to the mismanagement of earlier funds in the past, which is not the fault of the current chiefs and current financial crunch because of the downward trajectory of the price of crude right now. All hands should be on deck to support when we can with constructive criticism and not being pessimists.

  33. Augustine says:

    * JF-17 Thunder Block I variant came to market almost 10 years ago FOR A PEANUTPRICE OF $15 MILLION each as 4th generation jet fighter, did any NAF chief of staff or FG president buy it? *

  34. Augustine says:

    * FOR A PEANUT PRICE OF $15 MILLION *

  35. jimmy says:

    Oga Ola well done ditto Zachary, Arejames, ifiok umoeka and the rest
    I leave the technical details to you guys , this is my take
    The super The Super Mushshak appears to me part of a sweetener ” throw in deal” i i do not believe they will stand in as a simulator or anything of that sort , those initial pilots who are going to fly the JF-17 will have to be……. trained in Pakistan.
    The Russian deal/ snub , Honestly I can’t surmise what is going on it is what i see on the ground that i can point to , oga ZACH has said the deal is still on i.e for the Additional MI-35s however at the risk of dragging him back for a record third time the persistent speculations on the Gear box issues and the hydraulic issues have they been finally resolved, this is not a classified secret this is known world wide and in the intense environment of the BH campaign it did come to light, could it be the cause of the delay beside the money.
    Oga OLA moment of disclosure I was born in Britain and as i get older i understand how the upper class and 1% of their society react and do things both parents were educated there.
    Britain is going to help Nigeria now because it suits their interests ditto America I am not saying this to agree with OGA BEEGS OR oga Rugged both of whom I disagreed with and both of whom I had tremendous respect and honor for because you know where you stand with both of them
    However having said that I am pragmatic based on what I can deduce, this year (2016) Nigeria should look the way of Pakistain , Russia and China in terms of procurement the Pilatus even if they are free is a no – go area for Nigeria ( reason is undisclosed)
    Next year 2017 as things get better Economically Nigeria and the UK can do more procurement mid level ( they are already do low level procurement as we speak) things like ATGMs and just maybe export versions of things that both countries are already contemplating but for now( 2016)
    let us wait and see.

    • Augustine says:

      Oga jimmy, the mechanical problems said to affect the Mi-35 Hind is a separate topic on it’s own. Fact is that every helicopter will have problems operating in heavy dust and sandstorm prone desert like terrain of Northern Nigeria in our Sahel regions.

      No machine will be reliable for long when it’s engine and transmission is being constantly overloaded with dust and sand particles. Apache helicopter suffered serious reliability and thus availability issues in Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The US forces had to reduce their use and thus a close air support gap occurred for the US Army and marines who love to call for air support like a 2 year old boy calls mummy for milk and biscuits.

      The solution and gap filling measure for the American forces was the A-10 Warthog jet aircraft. It is deployed for close air support to ground troops when the Apaches are down for maintenance.

      In desert high heat and heavy sand/wind/dust, helicopter rotor blades themselves blow up the dust to damage the helicopter’s mechanical parts, like it kills itself. A jet engine does not raise that level of dust, the A-10 had less desert issues. Also, aircraft like the Super Tucano with single and small propellers will blow us less dust into it’s engines and gearbox, thus less issues.

      Fact is you need much more maintenance time for the helicopters or they will crash from malfunction due to terrain backlash on the engine and transmission gear. Mi-35 Hind is a worldwide successful combat helicopter and if the Arab world from Algeria to Iraq is using it, why not Nigeria?

      NAF would have used the Su-25 Frogfoot to support the Hinds, but I guess there may be no money for Su-25 if we are buying JF-17 Thunder. The Super Mushshak in armed variant will become our mini-Super Tucano replacement going by NAF plans 2016. It will become a 4th generation basic trainer, close air support and reconnaissance aircraft with the very light armament level of a drone. An armed and manned drone…..Super Mushshack.

  36. Augustine says:

    Oga Zacharry999, thank you for this NAF update and God bless you.

    This matter of NAF procurement plans require a separate thread maybe in January 2016, oga Beegeagle may want to wait for a NAF official procurement announcement which may or may not come soon.

    Let the boss decide. We can continue to comment on this thread but it’s a different topic from the Toyota donations to NA for which this thread was created. Maybe we continue till a special thread is opened for the JF-17 and Super Mushshak proposed acquisitions, but problem is that the Super Mushshak is a different aircraft platform and a different topic on it’s own from JF-17 jet fighter. I guess we will have lots to say come January 2016.

  37. Capt Tobias says:

    Ogas, the Saab MFI safari (earlier version)was flown extensively in combat by the Biafran Air Force as the Minicon Mosquitos or Biafran babes and accounted for a number of operations during the Nigerian civil war, it was armed with a rocket launchers/pods under wing and it’s activities are the core of the air war book written by Capt Augustine Okpe ( The Last Flight), It dealt extensively with the capabilities of this aircraft.

  38. ifiok umoeka says:

    Greetings guys, I didn’t rat out on u! Airtale just went off-line from evening till I slept by past 1am!

    Now that that’s out of the way, Oga Lachit, thanks for the correction on the transition to the J17. However, from all that I’ve read, the Pakistanis claim that the J17 is more forgiving than the F16! Perhaps the reference is only regarding single seaters! However, for supersonic flight, the only one we have are the J7s. Will the Pakistanis grant us access to the F16Bs? I very much doubt it! That’s said, this illustrates the gravity of adding an extensive training package to this deal if we have one

  39. ifiok umoeka says:

    As for the Mushak, during the civil war, a certain Count Von Rossen (I hope I spelled his name well) grabs 5 MFi 9s precursor to the Mushak and retro-fitted them with rockets and together with the team he raised (foreign and local) nearly wiped out the Nigerian airforce. If it could be done then with a very crude platform, it can certainly be done now! However, we don’t need an armed Mushak, we need Su 25s and CH4 drone to take on that role!
    Moreover, the Mushak still uses an American piston engine! So that doesn’t count! If its a sweetener, good! I have no problem with the Mushak, however, I’d like to know the role they were procured for and how long it will play that role. That will get us to ask the important, “…was that the best we could get?” Considering funds and politics!

    • Capt Tobias says:

      Oga Ifiok, You need to read Capt Okpe’s book ( Last Flight ), He was one of the first enrolled and trained Nigerian Airforce Pilots after independence, He is very detailed on the subject and how the armed and installed locally sight and weapons on the MFI. He is retired now and was offered and negotiating with hollywood to make a film based on the book.

  40. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Lachit, regarding plug and play, extensive work has been done and continuing in the J17. From the S African Darter, Brazilian Piranha, Sidewinder and all the Chinese have to offer from WVR to BVR. On surface attack from LGB to ASM, so much has been covered! Problem is, would it be possible to integrate Israeli weapons? As for Russian, I don’t think it will be too much of a problem. More so, using the Jaguars as a yardstick is a little disingenuous. The Jags avionics were designed in the 60-70s, the J17’s in the late 90s- early 2000s. The later had it avionics de coupled from the airframe design and inherently progressed with future weapon integration in mind! Don’t get me wrong, weapon integration coding takes a lot of time, but with it C++ programming language, integration won’t be too troublesome. More so, a lot has been carried over from the J10, itself a solid system. Also, Pakistan is fully committed to upgrade the J17! I just hope we have it complemented by something more capable and the super Fulcrum and the Flanker comes to mind!
    Question for u, how long did it take to integrate ASRAAM and Bramos to the MKIs and are the Python 5 integrated?

    On the L15, there seem to be an issue with it. Perhaps its one of the consequences of the Ukrainian crisis (engines are Ukrainian and the Chinese have not been too friendly) as I’m yet to see one delivery outside China! So, I say we stick to the yak!

  41. buchi says:

    Fitted with an American 260 hp engine, cockpit air conditioning, electrical instruments, and electric/manual elevator and rudder trim, the aircraft has been developed to meet FAR part 23 certification in normal, utility and aerobatics categories. It has a spacious side-by-side cockpit allowing good contact between the pilot and the co-pilot/observer or between the student and the instructor. The Super Mushshak meets the requirements of a modern primary training syllabus and is an ideal basic trainer for basic flight training and instrument flying.

    ist paragraph is my major concern and the mushshak is relativity to the air beetle is quite different bearing in mind that convertion aboard this platform Is quite easy.
    but operating with an American engine, logistics nko.alright some one would remind me that we are at percieved peace with the west I still think we shoudnt push our luck to far.

    it is cheering news that finally we will get to see something else with 7 pylons flying NAF roundel , whether it is three units (initial) the fact remains that I would welcome it wholeheartedly knowing it is the beginning of possibilities for NAF
    PGM intro
    ESLD intro
    ECM etc that warms my heart but until I see the first unit touching down at TAC or Abuja nah sidon look I dey. t
    they way my mind has been since even kafir-block 60 is enough to cheer me up.
    viva Nigeria

  42. ifiok umoeka says:

    Oga Buchi, greetings but we have moved to a new thread. Oga Capt, I’m hooked already but I don’t know how to get it

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