Cameroonian soldiers in a Landcruiser gun truck armed with a Chinese-made Type 58 twin 14.5mm AAMG system.
PHOTO CREDIT: SKY NEWS
REUTERS
27 June, 2014
by Tansa Musa
AMCHIDE, Cameroon
An iron bar balanced between two metal poles is the only barrier between Cameroon and Nigeria in this dusty corner of the Sahel. Children playing games skip around it.Inhabitants on either side greet each other and share jokes in the same language. The currencies of either country are accepted in markets as worried residents stock up on supplies.
As the threat of Nigeria’s Boko Haram militant group increasingly looms over Cameroon, its government has dispatched over 1,000 troops and heavy armour to the north.
But the scene in Amchide, a small village on the Cameroon side, shows how hard it is to police a remote area where militants have deep ties with communities on both sides of the border and can slip from one to the other unnoticed.
“We are living here in total fear because you don’t know if your next-door neighbour is Boko Haram.And we don’t know what can happen to us at any time,” said Samson Niba, who lives in Maroua, the main town in Cameroon’s Far North region.”The problem with our brothers up north here is that they are too secretive. They can host a Boko Haram suspect and they will not alert anyone even if they know what he is,” he added.
Boko Haram has killed thousands in Nigeria since 2009, when it began a campaign of shootings and bombings in a bid to create an Islamist state. The group gained global notoriety in April when it kidnapped more than 200 schoolgirls from a village in Borno state in northeastern Nigeria, adjoining Cameroon.
The militants have also become a regional threat and West African leaders last month pledged to wage “total war” on the group, which has kidnapped foreigners in Cameroon and has been linked to a series of plots in Niger.
A bullet-riddled and burned-out four-wheel-drive vehicle sits abandoned just on the Nigerian side of the Amchide barrier, destroyed by Cameroon security forces as militants tried to cross over from Nigeria, according to residents.
Following a tip-off from locals,Cameroonian security forces on Monday arrested 40 suspected militants, including 20 picked up from the market, in Maroua, Colonel Felix Nji Formekong, the deputy regional commander, told Reuters. “This is a particularly sensitive zone,especially on local market days … which are often used as an opportunity by Boko Haram to infiltrate our land,” said Formekong. “Once they (the militants) are among the people it is difficult to identify them,” he said.
WAR DECLARED
Cameroon’s move to bolster its northern defences comes amid stinging accusations from Nigeria it has not been doing enough to counter the threat.But a similar military deployment by Nigeria in its northeast has failed to stop Boko Haram attacking villages there almost daily and planting bombs in the capital Abuja.
A string of foreigners have been kidnapped in Cameroon’s north over the last year. Among them were a French family as well as two Italian priests and a Canadian nun, who were taken into Nigeria before their eventual release.
In another incident, suspected Boko Haram rebels attacked a Chinese work site in northwest Cameroon in May, killing at least one soldier and abducting 10 Chinese workers whose fate is unclear. Cameroon officials reject accusations they are not doing enough and say intelligence cooperation with Nigeria is good.
Formekong said Cameroonian forces had killed at least 10 militants in the north since Sunday. State media say government troops have killed dozens of others in recent weeks. The information has not been independently verified.
“Cameroon has … declared war against Boko Haram and there can be no doubt that real actions are being taken on the ground,” Lieutenant-Colonel Didier Badjeck, an army spokesman, said while visiting the north with journalists this month.
MIXED RESULTS
Some residents in Amchide, where soldiers crouch in trenches or keep watch from behind sandbags at positions backed by armoured cars, welcome the heavy deployment. “Now calm has returned to this village, we can go on with our activities normally, live and sleep in peace,” said resident Brah Omara.
Formekong said the military was cooperating with residents, many of whom were returning from hiding in the bush. In a bid to win hearts and minds, troops in Ndiguina, a village just east of the frontier, handed bags of rice, cooking oil and sugar to residents.
Some locals, however, complain restrictions that include an overnight curfew, as well as the militant threat, are making it harder than ever eke out a living in a region cut off by bad roads and is one of Cameroon’s poorest.
Hostage-taking has scared off potential tourists. Ze Bita, head of customs in the Far North region, said there had been a sharp drop in customs revenues, even though the security presence has cut down on cotton smuggling into northern Nigeria.
“I am afraid of Boko Haram. The whole population is afraid,” said local woman Hadama Madina. “The government has even chased us away from this market because of Boko Haram.”
Beegeagle's Blog 
Cameroon should be more serious, and deploy about 5,000 soldiers plus 5,000 Gendarmes in their north area with Nigeria, those 1,000 elite troops they put there are not superman or spiderman to be flying about across rivers and mountains to reach distant combat zones when Boko launches surprise attacks in different and dispersed locations.
If Nigeria gets too hot, Boko will face Cameroon before their insurgency finally dies out, because Chad is hard to beat.
As much as i hate to think of it but it is true
Meanwhile, back in Nigeria near Chibok, Boko Haram operated for about 4 hours without any challenge from Nigerian armed forces, and went back home safely to sleep with our 200 girls, and NAF was unable to challenge them on their way driving back.
For God’s sake, if NAF trailed them, we would have known their hide-out or secret base by now.
Nigerian military is becoming half useless in battle as a combined united force. However, I salute the individual soldiers who die in their prime of live leaving widows and fatherless children behind.
Boko Haram gave notice that they would strike Chibok again this month, and they did one in a town close to it. Where was Nigerian military after the notice was given?
sometimes the insult we get from the Oyinbo people is our own making.
NA and NAF, you just like to disgrace this country, abi? Unless this story below is incorrect…
INSURGENTS on Sunday launched attacks on three villages near Chibok in Borno State, setting ablaze five churches and killing no fewer than 48.
In the offensive, which was said to have lasted for about four hours, the terrorists attacked churches during Sunday worship, shot at worshippers and set the church buildings ablaze.
A resident said, ‘‘Boko Haram stormed Kautikari, Kwada and Karagau villages early in the morning at about 8.45am.
“The attackers locked worshippers inside the church and rained bullets on them.”
The source said 30 persons were shot dead in Kwada while about nine were killed in Karagau.
According to the source, no fear than nine worshippers were killed inside the Kautikari EYN church.
A youth leader in the area, Mr. Moses Zakwa, who spoke to one of our correspondents, said, “The communities that were attacked are Kwada, Kautikari and Karagau, all in the Chibok Local Government Area. As of now, over 20 persons have been confirmed dead, 10 of which I know personally.
“My cousin and one of my uncles were among those killed. He had three wives and over 20 children and he was killed in cold blood. The attack started around 8.00am and it lasted for over four hours.
“The gunmen also opened fire on worshippers in a church service. People have not been sleeping at home. Some have run into the nearby bush to hide because their lives are at risk.”
Zakwa is the president of the Kibaku Youth Association.
Another Chibok indigene, Manasseh Allen, also confirmed the attack in a telephone chat with our correspondent.
“We need divine help,” he said, adding that Kautikari is the second largest town in Chibok council area.
A member of the Borno State House of Assembly, representing Chibok constituency, Mr. Aimu Foni, also told The PUNCH, “It’s obvious this was a Boko Haram attack because three days ago, they threatened to attack.”
The attack on Kwada, Karagau and Kautikari villages came exactly 74 days after members of the terrorist Islamic sect, Boko Haram, abducted well over 200 pupils of the Government Girls Secondary School, Chibok, on April 14.
The insurgents had two weeks ago written to the council area that they would attack it again.
Indigenes on Sunday listed the churches burnt down in the attacked communities to include a branch of the Deeper Life Christian Ministry, COCIN and EYN.
“They (the insurgents) killed and burnt down houses after they had attacked worshippers in five churches in Kwada, and advanced to Kautikari less than eight kilometres to Chibok town, killing and burning down people’s houses and properties,” another indigene, Malam Yahi, told one of our correspondents on the phone from Chibok.
“As of now we do not know about the efforts of the security agents, whether they are on ground or not but all our people, those who can flee have run into the bush and are being pursued by the murderers,” Yahi added.
A top local government official in Chibok town, who did not want his name published, told journalists on Sunday afternoon that “our people have fled into the bushes and we can only appeal that security men are immediately drafted to the town and environs.”
He complained that on receipt of the threat letter two weeks back, they had gone to the police to seek maximum protection but that the police authorities had told them then that they had logistic problem.
The attacks on the area caused apprehension even in the state capital, Maiduguri, as some of the indigenes of Chibok in the town were said to be making panic phone calls to their relations back home.
Most of the churches in Maiduguri were also said to have embarked on prayer sessions, asking for God’s intervention after receiving the news of ongoing attacks on their home community.
There was no word from security agents on the fresh attack on Chibok as of the time of this report.
In a related development, Sunday worship in Abuja churches were said to have been filled with testimonies by survivors of last Wednesday’s bombing of the EMAB Plaza in Wuse II area of the Federal Capital City.
Twenty one persons were killed in the blast that rocked the shopping mall. One of the dead victims of the blast is the Managing Editor (North) of the New Telegraph, Malam Suleiman Bissala.
One of our correspondents reported instances of long queues of testifiers in many Pentecostal churches in the city, with many of them narrating how they were divinely saved from death.
Meanwhile, the Nigerian Army on Sunday beefed up security on Abuja major highways to forestall another blast in the nation capital.
Our correspondent observed that soldiers had set up checkpoints on the airport road and in the central area of the city, checking contents in the boots of vehicles.
The development slowed down traffic in the areas but motorists expressed satisfaction with the stop – and – search arrangement, which they claimed would further curb the activities of the insurgents.
A cab driver, Mr. Ibrahim Bello, noted that apart from the fact that the presence of the soldiers on the road would scare bombers, the action would also minimise speeding, which he said remained the major cause of accidents on the highways.
http://www.punchng.com/news/bharam-kills-48-burns-churches-near-chibok/
I have been making noise about deploying heavily armed garrison of soldiers in every Nigerian town in NE war zone for the past 2 months now. I said if we don’t want to do the garrison strategy, thousands of Nigerian will still die.
I made this garrison noise so much, my loudspeaker nearly burst. Nobody wants to hear my noise.
A heavily armed 15 soldier garrison plus 25 specially trained and experienced MOPOL policemen and Civil Defence Corp, with a handful of local hunters as helpers/guides, and the force having various 1km to 2km range high calibre weapons plus about 5 armoured vehicles/APC/MRAP with excellent communication to call for rapid response reinforcements and enemy approach early detection equipment, will combine to beat back 300 Boko Haram fighters and save lives of innocent Nigerian civilians.
Boko will suffer regular heavy casualties and rapid high attrition rate will shrink their fighting force, then the war will turn to mostly suicide bombing, and it won’t be on a very widespread scale, how many suicide men are available in West Africa?
Nigeria, your choice, garrison or daily deaths of innocent people…or else find another way of ending this war by peace negotiation or a final blitzkrieg to crush Boko…if you can ever find them in their unknown hide-outs. You cannot kill the enemy you cannot see.
You Nigerian military almost always miss your chances to hit back heavily on Boko when they come out to fight, you let most of them go back home safely to plan the next evil attack on Nigeria. You guys have some Spartan Mk III APC with two roof hatches for double 12.7mm heavy machine guns and engine rated speed of 120 km/h, abi no be so ? You not fit chase Boko ?
If NAF is half dead, is NA together with them in coma ?
I need proof that some powerful Nigerians are not deliberately allowing this war to continue for political agenda and financial gains . Let someone prove me wrong.
We can’t get those jets because we are darn to ashamed of bringing in mercenary pilots. Our air-force did not do a medium and long term contingency planing against bokoharam and we have been caught pants down.we can only buy what our pilots can fly at the moment. The CinC cannot bring in merc pilots it’s political suicide.This is a warning ,if we intend to use 4.5g jets in the future get in su27’s NOW.You can’t just buy aircraft that your pilots can’t use when you need them.
Oga Augustine, you are 100 % right.
This blog has tried to avoid the truth about this tragedy, in an effort to counteract the anti military anti GEJ biased groups in Nigeria and abroad.
But having said that, what use is an army that can’t protect it’s weakest citizens ?
What use is a commander in chief that cannot martial the resources of an oil rich nation to provision an army that can defend it’s people.
Iraqi president Maliki in a 2 week crises has ordered and deployed the same SU-25’s and SU-27’s we have been imploring our authorities to purchase, within a week.
Iraq gets game changing jets in a week, and what is Nigeria’s excuse ?
Cheap Mi-24s, that sudan and other African countries are picking up for a couple of million usd at the most, and Mi-17 transports, are available for Nigeria to invest in enough of them to win this war easily against BH.
But it just seems that our wicked political class can’t be bothered enough purchase even that.
As I have said before, there is nothing left to say. I would speak with my vote at the ballot box.
I just hope the right candidates emerge .
Fear no go even gree make person agree with you for public sef.
We shouldn’t even be running surveillance on bokoharam anymore,because they are almost guaranteed to strike chibok.They must have a camp between 100km-200km of that local government.
Bro,these battle is not meant for the army at all these would have ended if we had a national defense force made of local and retired ex-service men comprising of every tribe and support from military.look at the whole situation in the country and what is going on around the world we Nigerians are in d dark,nobody cares what happens in LIBYA,SYRIA,IRAQ ETC.But in reality all this conflict is indirectly affecting us.I advise everyone to start getting prepared for all out war in NIGERIA what is happening now is just test of waters to see how we will respond and unfortunately Religion and ethnicity is killing and separating us badly s we can’t see reality.
Is any one noticing the indiscriminate killing of NIGERIANS by the army.if these is not checkmate it will continue to cause disaffection and more recruitment for terrorist organisation e.g IRAQ,YEMEN ETC
an other bh sympathizer finds his way to this blog, i want you all to notice his anti israel and anti NA rhetoric. the hate for israel, isn’t that one thing shared by most terrorists ? Augustin, and his NA bashing has brought this kind of low lifes here, the guy thinks we belong to his ideology.
for those who are reading this: it is boko haram which is killing Nigerians, not the army.
My heart bleeds for those who have fallen, civilian and military…I almost went mad with grief.
And i am terribly ashamed of NAF.
During the recent attack on Chibok, the information and reports of the ongoing attack was on-line in real time. In fact some friends actually sent messages to Reuben Abati about the attacks.
I am sorry to say this…
BUT, i am beginning to seriously contemplate that some people in high places are benefiting from prolonging the on going mayhem in the North East.
Nigeria is failing it’s young, weak and vulnerable.
I am increasingly becoming disillusioned.
What is the basis for patriotism if the ruling class cannot be trusted to do the just and right thing?
These kind of situations provoke all manner of conspiracy theories and they would all be valid. Any ivory tower patriotism behind the key board does not cut it anymore, puerile analysis is completely irrelevant now. Something evil is happening. In being patriotic all our faculties including critical intellect should be employed. Questions should be asked?. Why is there impotence in governance, why has the commander in chief become the bereaved in chief and why are the armed forces failing this country.
??? is there any logic in your first statement ?
conspiracy theory is the act of imaginning something in your head and claiming it as reality, it is a confusion between virtuality and reality. It is the first step to madness. would conspiracy theories contradicting each other also both be valid ? what the hell is wrong with you guys ? have you all gone mad ?
the armed forces are not failing, you are realy a peace of work, it seems you want to ban patriotism now. you think it is more natural that we all join you and your likes in painting everything red ? you are the one who is being unreasonable. War is hard, people die at war, the longer you can keep a sound mind, the better for the country. You don’t know what patriotism means : it is the will to sacrifice all you have, including your life in service to the nation. A patriot is a guy who would always look for a solution rather than whinning and saying unconstructive things, without patriotism, we can’t move the nation forward.
patriotism = love your country, love yourself, you are a Nigerian before anything else.
This level of mediocrity and down right impotency is not Nigerian. It all started in the 80s, you people are the IBB/Abacha generation you don’t have anything good to compare against. Don’t push a destiny on me that is not mine. Where is the NAF?, how could a country like Iraq with a smaller economy get the emergency procurement of their required jets in 5 days and we are waiting two years?. Did you watch the latest bombing at Abuja?, did you see severed hands?, did you see the badly burnt 18year old girl writhing in pain and fear as life was draining out of her?… while the film I watched was rolling, a good 20 minutes there was no single ambulance. You want this blog to be just about commentators fawning over pictures of military hardware like high school kids with a trashy mag?, please take a hike. Congratulating the NA piecemeal over the five terrorists here, the six terrorism there killed in action, when we should be killing them in thousands. Well we will not take consolation prizes in this war. We want decisive and incisive actions. You are talking about solutions – this blog is full of a hundred and one of them, none has been implemented.
As someone suggested I am beginning to really suspect you. You seem to be a mole planted by enemies of Nigeria. Any time we set the bar high, your immediate reaction is to drop it. Reduce the cut off point so that your beloved NA/NAF still manage to pass the exam.
@arjames, your continued use of illogical reasoning and your continued praising of conspiracy theory and your continued bashing of the war efforts are in no way to the benefit of Nigeria. What bar did you place higher ? All you did was to claim that all conspiracy theory was valid and patriotism was bad ! Where is the bar you placed higher ? I hope people can notice that when some people known for their lack of logics run out of argument, they naturally turn back to their conspiracy theory making and accuse me of being placed by the enemy. indeed, the ennemy wants us to be patriotic, to be bringing out solutions to crush it …? Now you are talking about a video of the explosion, so because people there is a video which shows people died ( something we already knew) that means, patriotism is bad ? the army is bad ? logics are bad ? Out of a sudden we have failed ? Look fellow, if you are not acting like this on purpose then I recomment you learn how to controle your emotional outbursts. logics shall always prevail, here we don’t talk with emotions, we talk solutions and we use logics.
By the way, the KFIR jet was made in the 1970’s and last operated around the mid 90’s. So the Israeli’s can zero the Jet? So, why cant we ‘zero’ our Jaguars that have done near zero flight hours and are much younger? Why should consider an Israeli jet that is probably older and done more work than our jags and rejoice in them? What if our Jags were Israeli,would we be prospecting ‘zeroed’ Israeli jags?Let’s not go anywhere near the kfir without checking out our Jags(with the help of the Indians) first.
I also suggest we flog out our alpha’s on the current insurgency and phase them out.I doubt they will have much flight ours after BH. Induct the JF-17 now,with the training of ground crew and introductory 5 used BLK1 until our order of BLK2 is ready. I believe used Block 1 should cost about $7-$10M each.Only problem is do we take on merc pilots or give ours’ the time to train in Pakistan? If they decide to go this way then we can prepare for SU’s by getting introductory su27’s next budget and slowly phase out the F-7’s and its maintenance line.
Bro F Israel idc what u think but since they came into Nigeria thanks to the AL-CIADA trained presido and guarded by foreigners we will not move forward.no wherethis ppl are the wont destroy to get the want.and if u think they have the intrest of black ppl look up videos of just two days ago and see what the are doing to black ppl in the occupied and stolen land,pls we dont need them at all ,
dude, we nigerians are not arabs, arabs have never helped us in anyway so why should we fight their battle for them ? i think you have misplaced priorities, the arabs are not our friends and never have been, israel is our friend and business partner.
take your crusade elsewhere
Nigeria I CRY FOR THEE.
it is becoming harder and harder to read this blog, the percentage of clueless conspiracy theorists or bh sympathizers on this blog keeps growing.
http://www.talkofnaija.com/local/major-facilitator-of-the-chibok-girls-abduction-captured-by-nigerian-army
According to a statement by the Defence headquaters, the major facilitator of the Chibok girls kidnap has been arrested ..The statement by Major General Chris Olukolade, Director Defence Information reads
A terrorists’ intelligence cell headed by a businessman who participated actively in the abduction of School Girls in Chibok has been busted by troops. The man, Babuji Ya’ari who is also a member of the Youth Vigilante Group popularly known as Civilian JTF which he uses as cover while remaining an active terrorist, also spearheaded the murder of the Emir of Gwoza. His main role in the group is to spy and gather information for the terrorists group.
Babuji has been coordinating several deadly attacks in Maiduguri since 2011, including the daring attacks on Customs and military locations as well as the planting of IEDs in several locations in the town.
The arrest of the businessman who is known to deal in tricycles has also yielded some vital information and facilitated the arrest of other members of the terrorists’ intelligence cell who are women. One of them, Hafsat Bako had earlier escaped to Gombe State to avoid suspicion but was tracked and arrested. Prior to her arrest, Hafsat coordinated the payment of other operatives on the payroll of the group. In her confession, she disclosed that a minimum of N10,000 is paid to each operative depending on the enormity of his task.
Another female suspect named Haj Kaka who doubles as an armourer and a spy for the terrorists group has also been arrested. Until their arrest, all the suspects actively operated a terrorists’ intelligence cell in collaboration with others still at large.
In another development, troops deployed in Goniri, Yobe State, over the weekend, had an encounter with terrorists, resulting in casualties on both sides after the attack was successfully repelled.
Good News
Too late.
@Igbi Bro keep quiet two tours in IRAQ and u say i am what? anti semitic.u are joke and that is y i try not to comment to much here.what ever is happening in NIGERIA is a play book and u dont come here to tell me crap i know.when i say Israel yes the are part of the world problem if u love them that bad,pls i can hook u up with free ticket and u go there and live.in a month am leaving this hell whole (US)and i will b home in Kano and will be having audience with state house if u can make it pls u are welcome to come hear and see first what i know and how we can get out of this mess,and hopefully i will get a pass to borno state.if u think anybody that bash NA means we hate them then u are mistaken bro.if i can speak to friends in SF and they are amazed with wat i put on the table based on reality and u PIKIN think otherwise.i dont need ur say. and if u dont know conspiracies are just they way u hear and believe it.Once again F israel
This @Igbi chap should be sanctioned. I am beginning to suspect him of serious IQ deficiency. Railing about conspiracy theories. A new illegal republic has just been declared forcefully taking territory in Syria and Iraq by a force arguably smaller than the armies of both countries. Russia has cut off a third of Ukraine. Not too long ago half of the DRC (Africa’s largest in land area) was almost taken by a ragtag force or unknown sponsors. All these are happening and we must just sit down and accept them as random events happening without instigation.The map of the world is being redrawn in our lifetime – global fascists, radical Islam, Zionists and Western manipulators are going against each other in a game without borders and we must play ostrich and not attempt to discern what could be brewing below the surface on a defsec blog. Even the FG has rattles out unproven conspiracy theories every week trying to explain why the BH problem has become so intractable.
One thing you may all have noticed is that conspiracy theorists often have the belief that they are the smartest people on earth. They believe there is something which they can see and the rest can’t. They think of themselves as people who aare to be listened to, people from whom the rest should learn from. They don’t listen to reason and they don’t use logics, it is all about the film going on in their heads. The next step of conspiracy theory is madness.
As painfully as i lost heroes here in IRAQ this is why everyone should be worried plssssssssss
Oh, so you are some 007 james bond !
Oh, yeah !
Nigerian doesn’t mean stupidity, dude ! get back to your video games or start speaking sense.
I am not playing James Bond and I don’t claim to know more than the other guy.However when human lives are being taken I want to know why. I also want to know why my country has become a shadow of its former self. If poor people are being made pawns of I want to know the chess masters who think human life is subordinate to their political or religious ideology. And i want to knock institutions that are shirking their duty to defend and protect the Nigerian life which is just as precious as the average American. The final point is that George Bush and the Pentagon faced more ridicule and criticism about combat losses during the Iraqi and Afghan wars than the current Nigerian govt and NA/NAF combined. Nobody railed against the American critics and nobody called them unpatriotic. Please do your research on how MRAP s came about and deduce whether criticism is always bad.
@arejames i wasn’t talking to you
so spare me the emotional outburst
Nigeria needs all d patriots we can get. War on Terror is everybody’s war. I don’t believe there is any theory behind BH, it’s just the chronic corruption, laziness and a dysfunctional society thats making this plaque last this long. Iraq has 5 su 25 frogfoots after one week of insugency yet we are still here pushing trainers aircraft to fill gaps of CAS. Where’s the zeal to win the war? Where’s the funding? Where’st the minister of defence? Who should take blame when everybody is playing hide and seek.
Nigeria has not being placed on war footing, total patriotism is needed at this point because it is quite clear that the defence institutions cannot protect us fully. I’ll advocate for everybody to pick up arms and march to sambisa. Why i say this is because there should always be a counterweight to any insurrection/tribe i.e a shia to sunni e.t.c. In some countries every tribe has a militia to protect themself and defend their right (e.g Kurds peshmerga) irrespective of the fact that there is a National armed force.
Why is Nigeria managing resources to fight Terror? I won’t be surprised if it’s because one stupid, clueless politician is pocketing all the cash. Lets be honest Nigeria has a big problem which is corruption. All our anti-graft agencies has been polluted with the bad blood. I cry for my country! Everyday i see patriots, heros of the republic suffering under hardship while a micro few individuals squanders and choke the country’s life forces.
We need pure and true revolution but not the Boko haram kind. A jihad of reform, a struggle to retake our country from puppeteering and greedy bastards. We must make the ultimate sacrifice this our lifetime. Now or tomorrow but it must be done because thats the only way to our salvation.
Boko haram is not the problem but one of the outcome of the problem. We all need to do all we can (in our little corners) to assist Nigeria reach the heights she is supposed to. We must not give up, the sacrifices of our heroes past shall not be in vain.
VIVA LA VIDA.
VIVA LE RÈVOLUTION. VIVA NIGERIA.
Be prepared for when the revolution comes, you wont be caught unarmed…
@Triggah, you have said it all. There are two mutually exclusive explanations for the problem. Only one of them must be predominantly true.
Either institutions are failing or there’s is a grand conspiracy somewhere. It is either one or the other. I personally tend to the former that it is the institutions that are failing and for every body saying the SSS, NIA, NA and NAF are not failing, I tell them they must accept the opposite argument that there is a conspiracy. Anybody who then goes forward to say both sets of reasons are wrong should go back to school. His education has been wasted.
Guys,
Cool off Na !
This is not Nairaland.
If DEFSEC blog members can’t keep a clear head, then who can?
Oga Triggah, you really pulled the trigger…on target, on point. Truth is bitter in Nigeria, somebody needs to tell us the truth about why events and occurrences look suspicious and ‘humanly orchestrated’ in this Boko Haram war. We see the signs openly, things don’t add up when you do the calculations….who is fooling who?
Oga drag_on I agree with you on the Kfir block 60 jet fighter issue, why should Nigeria buy 40 year old re-modeled 1970 manufactured French Mirage 5 jet fighters renamed as Kfir, that Israel wants to dump on some unfortunate countries under the name of cheap 4th Generation jet fighter?
If Kfir Block 60 is that good after zeroing the engine back to ‘new’ condition, let the Israeli air force buy them and use as front-line combat aircraft now. Did they zero age the air frames also? How?
Such aircraft is only good as stop gap measure instead of F-7 jet as stop gap. When are we going to start replacing the 40 year old remodeled Kfir jets? They will be half a century old in the next 10 years ! How many stop gaps are we going to have? When will we have a jet fighter of which Nigeria has full technology transfer to us like Pakistan offers with the JF-17 Thunder?
These Israeli remodeled jets do not have a good record. Argentina’s Israeli Nesher jets and Israeli missiles performed badly against British Harrier jets in Falklands war. South Africa had to retire all her Israeli Cheetah jets after maintenance became a big problem for the old wine in new bottle jet fighters, SAAF had to buy brand new Gripen jets.
If NAF wants urgent jets for Boko Haram war, let us lease a squadron of 12 JF-17 Block 1 from the 50 units in Pakistan with mercenary pilots if we cannot train our NAF guys early enough. Let’s swallow pride if situation is bad for us, NAF used Egyptian pilots in Biafran war when things were bad for Nigeria on the battlefield.
JF-17 has a future, Kfri Block 60 has no future, it is a dead end.
However, if FG and NAF insist on Kfri Block 60 or nothing else, we should accept the Kfir jets as half a loaf of bread is better than nothing. NAF is asleep and needs to wake up, unless this strange sleep is a ‘deliberate act’ with a hidden agenda which we can all guess…2015.
As an Indian, my observation about JF-17 block-1 run the risk of being rejected as being motivated. But, has any one come across any news article or information that JF-17 jets were/ are used against terrorists in the past and current operation in NW Pakistan?
Isn’t it strange for a aircraft that is in the block for export? We are aware how Rafale’s prowess was showcased in Libya.
As, potential buyers give importance to war proven bird, why Pakistan is letting this opportunity pass? Strange.
Pakistan wants future total 250 units of JF-17 Thunder at a cost of about $ 5 billion, I think the Pakis will not waste their money on crap. Argentina pulled out for financial reasons, down-payment for joint-venture and technology transfer was too much for poor Argentina to pay. I read a Spanish web source and got that info.
My good friend, most countries cannot afford the SU-30MKI or Gripen E jet, so a small purse will buy you small meat, but at least you have some meat to eat for protein.
I am surprised too as you said, PAF is not using their current 50 units of JF-17 in any combat action. Why?
Kfir Block 60 is not a 40 year old aircraft. The airframe is old but would be stiffened in- factory, all structural components re-riveted and corrosion protected. I accept that there are probably no composite materials in the construction which make it of an earlier generation but the engine, avionics, radar, ECM, weapons integration gear, data linking et.c are all 4th generation. On top of all that the old Kfirs have proven themselves in most wars involving Israel. This is a capable modern multi-role fighter comparable to the JAS Grippen. Only problem is the restricted range.
Oga Are, notice that I said 40 year old remodeled, and made up to 4th generation. That factory work does not change the fact that the Kfir Block 60 is a 40 year old skeleton with new born ‘flesh’ covering it. Experts already worry about how Argentina will get engine spare parts for the old engine from USA in future. Kfir Block 60 is new wine poured into an old bottle. Nothing will change that fact. Photos even show the aircraft were parked outside in the desert sun ‘storage’ for about 20 years ! Well fresh paint is cheap to buy.
Kfir block 60 is a jet fighter that has no future, dead end !
Oga Doziex: I beg to differ (as expected) the Su 25s Iraq has ordered are not ‘game changing’ they already have total air superiority, the Syrians have been bombing ISIS. Helicopters are the best CAS platforms in this type of conflict and the Iraqis have been using them abundantly.
As with everything the devil is in the detail.
ISIS is outnumbered, operating in a country with limited cover when in the open against an army with armour, protected mobility and fighting vehicles, yet they have captured the Sunni areas of Iraq. the problem is not air cover, the problem is the Iraqi Army is not fighting and doing the necessary things to either fix or else find the enemy for airpower to destroy.
The Iraqi SF at Baquba held their positions for ISIS to be destroyed by helicopters and Cessnas
Around Mosul a huge city where ISIS could have been trapped and funnelled the Iraqis ran away.
Now why haven’t the helicopters been more successful? Poorly equipped and poorly trained without proper aiming optics,they are essentially aiming with ‘iron sights’, apparently they were trained to use proper HUD displays etc but the helicopters they have are not so equipped.
Most of Iraqs helicopters are not flying due t poor maintenance.
So the key question then is what are these new Russian Su 25s configured with? Who will fly them? How are they going to destroy ISIS forces when they are now dispersed and have captured Iraqi Army equipment?
The real game changers are not the Russian Su’s, the game changers are the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Su25s which are currently in Iraq, alongside Quds and other IRGC units.
In other words in the eyes of the Sunnis, the Persians have finally achieved their objective and are now deployed on Arab/ Iraqi soils and there is now a direct land link between Iran and Syria.
That is a game changer
@Augustine, I am not contesting the depth of purse or gunning for Kfir block 60. As you rightfully said it’s a stopgap fighter with no future.
But, what I am trying to point out there is something amiss in JF-17 project. There are indications of it, of which we are not certain nor the reason for them.
The small batch production of JF-17, was delivered to Pakistan in 2007, those weren’t BVR capable. One would have thought in 7 years, those (block 1) have been upgraded to fire BVR.
But, I was quite shocked to read that BVR capability will come only in block 2. Subsequently Block 1 will be retrofitted.
Thus, 7 years to make your flagship jet fighter BVR capable raises eyebrows and questions, has China lost interest in the project, and stopped putting in money? Is it only the shallow Pakistani purse that is funding it?
Also, the block 2 upgrade is modest, with avionics upgrade, radar upgrade and Inflight re-fueling probe. Even the IFR will appear in production model only in 2016. Other upgrades like engines are deferred for block-3.
Thus, is the project JF-17 progressing satisfactorily for now and can that be said for the program in future?
My 2 cents.
Non BVR JF17 is way below Kfir Block 60 and should not even be considered. Let us also compare the tech savvyness of the exporting nations. Israel is a prime developer of aerospace and defence technology. Pakistan has been trying to play catch up for decades. As for age of airframe I think we are mixing apples with oranges. How old are the F15 and F16 in terms of airframe design?. As for deterioration in storage and previous usage, three problems with old, stored airframes are reduced fatigue strength which depends on how many cycles of take off, dogfights and landing the plane operated while is service, then any possible hidden cracks and finally, corrosion. The manufacturing process for Block 60 apparently starts with comprehensive inspection for the detection of all these problems and holistic airframe protection thereafter. There are now computer gizmos now that will tell you remnant life of a structure just by inspecting it with all sorts of gadgets. On the engine, four different options exist for the Kfir Block 60 compared with the JF17 Block 1 that is stuck with the RD 93 and Grippen’s Volvo RM 12. It is a good thing the issue of the engine was raised because essentially this the main issue.
Eventually Nigeria’s full domain air capability will have to be met by a range of platforms, I think the Kfir Block 60 should be ideal for the ground attack from standoff / midrange air defence purposes. These is the poor man’s F16 Block 50 we are talking about. Another aspect to the range of capabilities we are not talking about is Gulf of Guinea EEZ protection which requires ability to work/link with Alexia ATR 42, launch long range anti ship missiles while flying over long expanse of ocean – how the JF17 will do this is not yet clear, how Block 60 does this is exactly why maritime intensive nations like Argentina are lining up to buy them even with the risk of hostile sanctions actions on engine parts by the UK’s main friend USA.
*This is the poor man’s F16 Block 50 aircraft * ;
* Alenia ATR 42 *
@Oga Are’
I am with you on the Kfir jet. The sensor suite ain’t bad, provided NAF goes for full options. The Israeli are also guaranteeing delivering within 12months.
Like I earlier pointed out on another thread, if we can’t get the JF-17 block II, then we have no business with the Pakistanis.
I shall write about my opinion in detail later, but it will not be Pakistan but China who will be primary contractors for JF-17 and Pakistan can only be subcontractor as the re-export license of Russian RD-93 engines is with China and not with Pakistan.
A technical fact many ignore. Argentina was in contact with China for joint production of JF-17 ( though as partners Pakistani clearance may be required) and not Pakistan.
Oga james
I brought up the issue of the Kfir not because of the JF-17 but because of the Jaguars.
How can we buy an aircraft the host nation has no interest in supporting?
What is the support and development cycle of the kfir going to be like since it came back from the scrap yard just to make a buck or two?
My argument is,if the kfir can be brought back from the bone-yard,why not the Jag?
Rather than buy kfirs let us bring in Indian engineers to look at our jags and offer suggestions.Maybe it can be upgraded to the DARIN3 standards.
If we won’t repair our Jags, no bone-yard jets.
I fully support reviving the NAF Jaguar jets and upgrading them to 4th Generation jets with Indian help. Why buy Kfir bones from Israeli boneyard when we have Jaguar bones in Nigerian boneyard already?.
Indian standard Jaguar is a better stop gap and cheaper than the Kfir
However,if the Israelis will give us the plans for the KFIR then we have something to talk about.
Concerning the JF-17, I stand by my earlier assertion,we should only get the jet if we are given access to construction and development.If we are not getting that,a mixture of SU 27’s and SU 30’s for air superiority and SU 25s’ for ground attack is the way to go ( Chad went the way of MIG 29’s and SU 25’s).
It’s strange that nobody is talking about J-10 from China. Some versions have been cleared for export and good thing is that it has indigenous Chinese engine WS-10 rated similar to AL-31F.
Members can discuss whether the aircraft is suitable or not.
@Bharat please feel free to speak your mind on this JF-17 jet, it is good to hear the Indian opinion because the Pakistanis won’t tell us all the truth.
Thanks.
Well we dislike J-10 for its very poor range in combat radius, despite the fact that J-10 beats JF-17 in dogfight maneuverability.
India has not yet suffered the agony of USA/EU arms embargo that destroyed Nigerian air force 18 Jaguar jets and 24 MBB 105 helicopter gunships during our long war in Liberia and Sierra Leone 1990 to 2000, these Americans and Europeans know how to destroy a 3rd world country.
This is what the Pakistanis are afraid of and are desperate to build JF-17 as a local Paki owned project. The USA had already started messing up the Pakis F-16 jet upgrade.
These people put Argentina under arms embargo during Falklands war and gave Britain free hand to buy weapons, France stopped sale of missiles and spare parts to Argentna while France gave Exocet missile computer code details to Britain. Israel too abandoned Argentina and weakend their air force, that is a lesson for Nigerians shouting to buy Kfir jets now.
Those USA/EU/NATO countries will ruin our air force again next time we offend them
Ah! gentleman @Augustine, please don’t go by wiki specification of JF-17 and J10 and conclude that JF-17 has more combat radius.
If you don’t mind let’s do a little mathematics, although a simplified one.
Internal Fuel capacity of JF-17 is around 2400 kg. (Loaded weight- empty wright)
Specific fuel consumption of RD-33 engine is 75kg/ KN.h
Dry thrust of RD-33 is about 50KN.
So, fuel consumption of RD 33 is 3750 kg/h.
So, the time of flight with internal fuel would be around 39 ~40 minutes.
So, neglecting takeoff, landing, height and other factors like use of after burner and drag at different heights.
We have maximum speed at 1.6 mach or 1960 Km/hr.
So, for 40 min duration we get 1306 km
But, now lets get to definition of combat radius
” Combat radius is a related measure based on the maximum distance a warplane can travel from its base of operations, accomplish some objective, and return to its original airfield with minimal reserves.”
So the catch word is ” return to the original airfield”. So, even after neglecting the reserve fuel we get a value 1306/2 = 653 Km.
So, from the simplistic calculation we conclude the the combat radius of JF-17 with internal fuel is around 653 Km.
And the Wiki entry for J-10 is
“Combat radius: 1,600 km (with air to air refueling), 550 km (without air to air refueling)[45][52] ()” from Wikipedia.
The JF-17 wiki entry states that.
“Combat radius: 1,352 km[131] (840 mi)” It doesn’t mention if the range is achieved with external fuel tanks. ( No IFR for JF-17).
So, compare for yourself if J-10 has lower range than JF-17?
If you use external fuel tanks, the capability to carry ordnance decreases. Catch22.
Any, observation on my calculation is welcome.
Thank You.
On the J10, @Beegeagle made a comment about the restricted range of this aircraft which I think is valid. However at the point we are now, the J10 and even the FH70A (that some people also think we have been evaluating) are all quite acceptable platforms in terms of being far better than what we have now. Indeed the FH 70A / Super Tucano mix is the most ideal for all spectrums air capability requirements.
Gentlemen, good debate, you are all making good points.
Argentina pulled out of JF-17 deal because of money demanded by China/Pakistan to transfer technology.
Click on translate to English options, the website below is Spanish.
http://www.defesanet.com.br/al/noticia/13961/A-dificil-Operacao-Kfir-na-Argentina-%E2%80%93-Roberto-Lopes/
@drag_on I am with you on this. If no JF-17 block II with full technology transfer to Nigeria, we should leave the Pakistanis to eat their cake alone.
We can go for Su-27 with upgrades of Carnards and vector thrusts if technically possible.
Not bad if we persuade India to sell us six units of lightly used Su-30 MKI for $300 million instead of brand new for $400 million and get full options hardware, then upgrade our twelve F-7 jets to BVR capability and full options including precision weapons and targeting pods plus recce pods, for a total cost of about $60 million. Then add twelve Super Tucanos full options mode for $240 million to make a second $300 million expenditure.
That will total $600 million for a small but very effective modern air force.
My opinion.
Oga Drag_on, while my opinion on the kfir is known (I hope) by now, may I point out that a good combat aircraft is determine by factor other than just it flight xtics! In other words, it take more than the airframe! The key word is system! The aircraft is a system beyond it body or if u like, the hardware! This is what makes the kfir very tempting, sensors, weapons and CMS! This guarantees the kfir 1st look, 1st shoot! However, like I’ve said before, the JF17 of modular design, it should be able to accept Israeli systems so why compete when u can have the best of both world!
On the Jags, Indian can’t Zero it airframe! Not like the Israeli who ‘OBTAINED’ the entire design and blue print of the Mirage! The Israeli didn’t abandon those kfirs in some boneyard, they stored them properly and prior to that maintained them meticulously when in service. Like I’ve said, the kfir’s engine and FCS are its greatest weakness! Had they been the Nammer, I would have been officially campaigning for it!
JF17 mk 1 are rubbish (pardon my choice of words) as it is! If we want it, then we must be prepare to upgrade it so as to enable it complete it missions! That is provided we have a role for it! This is what Oga Peccavi and yours truly have been harping about!
@ Oga ifiok umoeka
I am well aware of the systems on the Kfir,but who is going to support it for the possible 20-30yrs we will use it if new ones are not being built?
Where will the spares come from on a yearly basis? The only other nation currently interested is the rather desperate and cash strung Argentines.these same Argentines are very familiar with and have loads of Mirage3 and Mirage5 whose airframes the Kfir was built from and can be cannibalised for spares. Where will we get the necessary support structure? Do you remember the drones debacle?
My Oga, concerning our Jags,our frames don’t need zeroing, we hardly used them .It is the Kfir that needs the so called zero’ing and by the way,AFAIK india do manufacture jaguars under contract.
In fact,,my contention is not how fantastic or otherwise the kfir is rather, if we go for jets dumped by its owners Israel, then we MUST repair what we have because they were both under the same conditions with the difference being ours was not used due to sanctions.
The Jf-17 blk1 is rubbish yes. What i said is if we order for the blk2,we can get a few used blk 1@ about $5 million each for training/COIN while they(blk2) are being built.This will get us up to speed with the aircraft in our own environment .
Also, i have always said that we should get the aircraft ONLY if we get a pie in its construction and development.
Oga Bigbenjy, just as Oga Are James has pointed out, everybody does it and its called NATIONAL INTEREST! Perhaps, u’ll need more space for ur F list!
Trigger on point! Just that the REVOLUTION you are talking about, is it like the one in Egypt, Libya or Syria?
Oga Augustine, ‘…Israeli Nesher/missile perform badly’ how do u mean?
Israel never abandoned the Argentines. In fact, their technicians remained in Argentina through out the Falkland war! The same can’t be said about the French and Americans but that’s more to the vigorous diplomatic expertise of the British and REMEMBER, NATO is an alliance after all!
As for the Cheetah, to an extent you are right! Remember, quite a lot of highly skilled white SA left when Mandela came in! Moreover, the Mirage used in the Cheetah reborn were quite old as they didn’t want to withdraw their relatively modern Mirage F1 in the face of a surging Cuba/Angolan airforce!
As for the Argentines, they know that the can’t afford the mk2/3 versions and that it will not be ready in time b4 their window of opportunity closes! Also, the J79 is built (not assembled) in Israel and this variant is significantly different from the ones that powered the F4 phantom! By the way, the Thunder has an engine weakness too!
As for the Israeli re-commission of the kfir, the same can be said of the J17 which as Oga Bharat has pointed out is Chinese and the later has no plan or role for the Thunder
Oga Ifiok, Argentine air force Israeli Nesher and their Shafir missiles performed badly against British Harrier jets in air to air combat.
Slow subsonic speed Harrier jets shot down 9 supersonic speed Kfir jets with the latest Israeli upgrades to Kfri C.2 levels, the Kfirs and their Israeli missiles could not even shoot down one single British jet. That is bad for the Nesher/Dagger jets from Israel.
Israel abandoned Argentina as part of the west generated arms embargo. Rumours unproven say Israel gave clandestine support. It’s hard to believe Israel will fight against Britain, but only God know the truth unless the people involved will confess.
The 1973 good performance of Kfir jet was against weaker and older MiG-21 jets of Egypt.
Those Kfri block 60 were not shown inside internal storage, they were photographed parked outside for 20 years inside Palestine desert heat and sun. Basic science tell us about weathering and linear expansion. I can’t find that Spanish website photos again, but let me use this one.
Oga AreJames, don’t trust the Israeli claims about avionic magic of the Kfir rebirth, same story they told Argentina.
The overrated Israeli Shafir air to air missiles on the Kfri jets were actually declared useless by Argentina, they failed to score on single hit, while the Harrier jets had an owambe party shooting down nine Israeli Kfir jets of Argentina fully and freshly upgraded.
Same Israel that sold Nigeria 6 Drones that cannot fly, same Israel that sold Nigeria some second hand Shaldag fast crafts calling them brand new, all these happened in the last 6 years or so.
Israel is a good partner for COIN, Nigeria should use them for that role as fellow enemy of the Islamic terrorists, and let it end there, leave Israeli weapons alone to those who have no choice.
There is multiple corroboration of the popular view that Argentina was/is just damned undertrained in terms of combat pilots and engineers during the Falklands war. It is important to understand that the performance of their pilots during the Falklands war is not a reflection on the hardware they were using. Why did many south American countries line up for the Kefir C2 upgraded jets if the Kfirs were so bad in Falklands?. What is the basis of IAI’s confidence in offering the Kfir Block 60 to NATO countries who have over four different options for any fighter class at anytime?. The picture of the Israeli boneyard you displayed actually shows a higher standard of preservation than most countries in the world and the inspections and remnant life improvement technology for aircraft is mature in that country. Finally Israel has never boasted about its avionics, AESA, ECM, radar ablative, radar jamming, sensor integration, datalinking and network dogfighting capabilities they have shown it time after time. The latest was a >1000km strike on Sudan flying past through three hostile countries.
Oga Augustine much respect for your comments not deeply versed in the tech spec stuff for airframes,so I will keep quiet
on the airframe stuff.Now let us get to the drone stuff that was never govt to govt it was shady israeli men and shady naija middle men who after the deal was complete now wanted an arm and a leg for mainteanance.The naf at that point rightly called their bluff.The shaldags were bought brand new,we have the pictures on this blog of them undergoing transportation back to the states, we also knew when the first crew were transported to Haifa ,Israel for trainining. @40 to 50 knots top speed it is one of our fastest ships. I coined the phrase the fear of the shaldag is the beginning of wisdom because it has fired its remote controlled 20mm cannons twice in anger.Both results were pure : one moment the pirate ship was in sight , the next minute it was a ball of flames,.The nn like this boat so much we now six of them and it would not surprise me if more were ordered
Sorry phone was acting up.The shaldags were all govt to govt acquisitions. I actually had a picture of the then cds Admiral Ibrahim visiting the shipyard in Israel.
Oga Bharat, I’ve been harping for the vigorous dragon for a while now! My previous posts will attest to that! However, its been from the point of view of a strike/CSA that shares commonality with the Flanker just like the F15/F16! Thus, I’ve been advocating a 2 seat attack variant based on the 2 seat trainer J1S/SH. Thanks for the J10/J17 comparism, its on point and very accurate! If ur LCA had been mature along with the kaveri engine, I would be canvassing for it too!
Oga Peccavi, yes that its a game changer, Iranians flying them frogfoot! However, I don’t see the Gulf Arabs folding their arms! Perhaps, those MANPADs are already on the way! Factor in the Israeli backed Kurds and the Turkish response and its hell in the making! ISIS may in my opinion are actually tools in the hand of local and regional Sunnis to advance their geopolitical designs! The s**t will really hit the fan when the Sunni tribe militia get involved and suddenly u have 100,000 Sunni fighters led by ISIS
Oga ifiok umoeka, there will be no LCA Tejas with Kaveri engine in future. At least as far as Indian Air Force is concerned.
The only chance of seeing a LCA with Kaveri is if any other air-force who is allergic to both USA and Russian and Chinese technology is ready to receive an engine with 81-83 KN thrust and invest at least 3 years for certification.
Even if LCA matures on time, it will not get a export license before 2018, the time when HAL increases production capacity from 8 to 16-24 aircraft per year.
So, even when HAL says LCA has great export potential. I personally don’t read too much into it.
But, LCA naval version, if turns out to be good can see exports beyond 2020, if newly prosperous/ developing countries go into production of small to medium air-craft carriers as LCA navy will provide a cost-effective option and will face less competition.
@Bharat, thanks for this update, but it shows that the Chinese themselves like to confuse people with their equipment specifications. The J-10 and JF-17 true combat radius becomes a ‘mystery’, but I do appreciate your analysis, quite revealing. Thanks.
Well, will your country sell six fairly used Su-30 MKI to Nigeria at $50 million per unit?
I like the jet, it is the real deal….world class air superiority fighter that will not let you down in battle.
Oga Augustine, Wiki is user managed so, sometimes wrong info gets uploaded. But, I will never acknowledge that JF-17 has larger combat radius than J-10 in internal fuel for the simple fact that China is a large country and so, they need aircraft with long legs. If J-10 was chosen over JF-17 ( a sort of, there was no official competition, but it was always a option) , then it has to have better range.
I don’t think India has re-export license for Su-30MKI from Russia. That has to be obtained and also re-export license from France and Israel will be needed for their respective sub-assemblies.
But, for 50 million $ apiece you can get brand new ones, Malaysian ‘MKM’ version had similar pricing. ( $900 million for 18 aircraft). But that was back in 2003.
Though pricing would have increased, still if you negotiate hard and cut corners, you can but the delivery will be invariably delayed. At least 3 years from contract date.
Excluding the American and European engine, the options are limited.
In light category, JF-17
In medium category Mig-29, Mig-35 and J-10 and a couple of JH-xx series.
In heavy category Su-27, Su-30 and Su-35. J-11 ( I think they don’t export them).
Older option- Su-25 ground attack.
So, it boils down to doctrine and requirement.
But, definitely what surprised me was your Jaguar aircraft. I don’t know the story behind it.
There can be only few reasons.
1. Your govt. didn’t approach us for upgrade.
2. India refused. ( But why? we had offered Bangladesh for upgrading their Mig-29 to UPG ( SMT) standard. Also we help the Malaysians with their Mig-29 and Su-30 fleet).
3. Britain refused permission ( Is it required?)
4. Something else that we are missing.
Currently we operate Darin-2 standard ( Darin-3 has been delayed). But 2 variants.
1. For ground strike.
2. Naval Strike version with Elta-2032 MMR and Harpoon AShM integrated.
So, I was surprised that they are sitting in the hanger with few hours clocked. Their revival could have been achieved.
Another Indian experiment that didn’t succeed was the Mig-27 UPG ( second upgrade). It was planned to upgrade the Mig-27 with AL-31F engine and modern avionics. But it failed as the aircraft had minimum airtime left ( Addition of high thrust engine puts more pressure on airframe) and it’s difficult to maintain a swing wing aircraft.
But, there will be lot’s of Mig-27 in Russian reserve. If they have sufficient life in them, that can be a option, even cheaper than Kfir option. Provided you are ready for enhanced maintenance and use it for ground strike only.
The ‘Zero life’ is nothing fancy, and it’s not that the Israeli’s are the only one capable. The up-gradation of Indian Mig-21 from Bis to Bison had the ‘Zero-lifing’ done to them.
For the technicalities of Zero-lifing, please Google the term. But, in short it involves changing of airframe panels to reduce accumulated stresses and strengthening of the rib-cage like inner structure of fuselage.
So, depending upon your requirement and depending upon how much your govt. is prepared to spend ( monetary and manpower) and how much time you have in hand for the induction, you have various options to choose.
@Bharat, Nigeria had 18 Jaguar jets purchased brand new, one crashed, 17 left, the British ruined them with USA/NATO/EU sanctions during military rule in Nigeria, and most have near zero hours on them as we hear from sources. This is why Nigeria needs a jet we can be safe with in war. Nigeria was at war for 12 years 1990 to 2002 by intervention in Liberia and Sierra Leone.
The British didn’t have the courage to go to those civil wars and help the Africans, Nigeria traveled about 2,000 km away from home across the ocean into those jungle, city, and mountain battlefields.
The British said we had a military president and not a democracy, so they placed an arms embargo on Nigeria for about a decade, NAF 18 Jaguars were grounded, we managed to use a few of our Alpha jets, 24 helicopter gunships MBB 105 were also hit by sanctions and NAF had no single gunship for the war and that let to many casualties, we lost about 1,000 Nigerian soldiers.
Also the EU/NATO ruined our navy in that war, NNS Aradu frigate, missile corvettes, and LPD logistics ships would break down at sea and be tug boated back to Nigeria due to lack of spare parts of the 10 year arms embargo.
This is why Nigeria is becoming careful now and wants major (Not all, but the major) combat equipment to be purchased now with close to 100% technology transfer, so our navy got this deal with China and we are building say 70% the second P18N stealth OPV in Nigeria.
This is the reason JF-17 Thunder is attractive to us, technology transfer for domestic capacity to maintain and sustain use in a long war if sanctions come up. You could buy extra engines and put in storage, if sanctions come, you fabricate simple parts, work air frames, and get new engine from storage if need be.
J-10 jet is good, but nobody is buying it except China, and the old rumour of maintenance headaches could be worrisome if still persisting.
I think Nigeria should just buy the JF-17 Block II and III, or even Block IV if it comes, get full technology transfer paid for, and grow with the jet. No aircraft is free from issues to worry about in this 4th Generation fighter technology era and international politics.
I also see the JF-17 as a full 4th Generation F-7 jet totally remodeled. The Pakis are using it to replace F-7 so that makes my point sensible I guess. Also, JF-17 is comparable to Indian HAL Tejas jet, not the Indian Su-30 MKI. If pilots skills and other factors are equal, the JF-17 will be killed by Su-30 MKI in a dogfight.
Nigeria will need about 12 units of Su-30 Flankers as front-line multi-role jet fighters to lead about 36 units of JF-17 Thunders supporting.
First of all let me say this i love my country and i believe in The G.E.J Administration.
Secondly i’m a non-violent person (sometimes).
However as an intellect and a patriotic Nigerian i have this fierce burning fire in my heart to free my dear country from this shackles (corrupt inner cacus, unhealthy Godfatherism and puppeteering) that anchors this country firmly to the ground. that prevent economic growth and freedom.
You see it is not only the right of the people to overthrow an oppressive govt but their duty.
As Martin L. King (bless his soul) once said “it is the duty of a people to resist unjust laws/govt”.
Check your law book you’ll discover that RIGHT OF REVOLUTION/REBELLION is the right or duty stated throughtout history of the people of a nation to overthrow a goverment that act against their common interest.
CASE IN POINT: NIGERIA
The magna carta was written to limit authority and is seen as the RULE OF LAW. This is the basics of the American and British constitution. In effect; Nigeria.
A successful revolution cannot happen by one person alone,it is collective. He we want to really change Nigeria, we must first change ourselves.
Gone are the days when students revolted and Aba women took to the streets. This generation has been made soft and subservile. On more same and grits. No more hard spines made of steel. We have inculcated the habit of ‘lets watch and see’.
We should take input from history.
In 1868 the glorious revolution in Spain that disposed Queen Isabella II
In 1917 Vladimir Lenin led the october revolution.
In 1944 Guatemela revolution overthrew Federico Ponce (a dictator).
In 1956 a Cuba the popular revolution by Fidel Castro
in 1964 the october revolution, a general strike and rioting force president Ibrahim Abboud to transfer power to a civilian goverment and resign.
In 1977 market women revolt in Guinea.
A true revolutionaire must not compromise.
Compromise is failure. We must be commited.
Revolution is believe,believe in your cause.
Trust the people you fight for for they are your legacy.
Finally listen to your hearts.
The change Nigeria offer starts from you.
P.S: not all rebellion is violent. We want reforms, change in the way things are. We want a better Nigeria. Is that too much to ask?
** correction **
This generation has been made soft and subservile. No more sand and grits.
If not for how dysfunctional Nigeria is how would anyone be suggesting the f-21 kfir jet for us? Why is Isreal not fielding the jet? And the sepecat jaguar is old and obsolete. Next we will be suggesting to upgrade our mig 21 to lancer variant. The J-10 is good on paper (just like every other chinese stuff) but it is untested and is just an experiment. The jf-17 thunder should come with technology transfer or it is a no-go area. The ideal platforms for us is sukhois vis:
18 unit of Su-30 for air superiority,
6 unit of Su-25 +12 unit of alpha jet for ground attack and CAS.
24 unit of jf-17 for multi-role (backbone of NAF)
ATR 47 should be outfitted to carry anti-ship missile eventually.
The F-7 airguard should be sold or completed to a full squadron and used as interceptors and base defence aircraft.
And for God sake we need a dedicated attack helicopter like the mi-28 havoc because of commonality with our mi-24 hind. We also need precision weapons and new tanks, Maybe the T-90.
God knows we need a lot of things.
Everything you wrote here is supported except the Kfir. The Kfir Block 60 is different from Kfir f21 and has never been produced before until recently. We see many impressively beautiful civil structures built in top of old ones without fully demolishing the old, that is essentially what the Kfir block 20 does with existing airframes.. In the modern world, there are going to be few plane on plane dogfights but many network or aircraft going against network of aircraft. Sensor effectiveness in all weather, data processing and sharing speed, data linking efficiencies are going to be the deciding factors. I see an evolving situation where an upgraded platform like ATR 42 hovers in a circle in Abuja and furnishes a network of Kfir jets with coordinates and beam riding infrastructure to permit the launch of advanced BVR missiles against more advanced aircraft in Niger, Chad or within the Gulf of Guinea for instance. All this done from safe positions within Nigeria airspace that they can quickly zoom to and from at supersonic speed. That is the kind of capability we get within one year whilst waiting for JF17 Block 1 or 2 which your beloved NAF leadership (unpatriotically never accountable to anyone) will not admit to you will probably not be deployed in full numbers till 2017. The SU 30s deal (old refurbished airframes as well) may have been lost already. Belarus is reportedly re initiating dozens of old SU 27 aircraft from their boneyards and these may be available to us soon but we are not sure.
Essentially, it is not about the age of airframe anymore but the technology embedded within them and its interact ability within an overall architecture of air defense and offense.
These capabilities are not even going to be static with this version of Block 60 but will also continue evolving, available as upgrades for installation within airframes that have been zero-lifted and can go at least 25 more years.
Oga Augustine, that war was decided by other factors and not Israeli treachery! Infant, Israeli support continues right through the war! The factors include:
1. The strategic blunder of not expanding the Stanley airport to operate daggers and skyhawks.
2. The British Sub force bottling up the Argentine carrier @ port
3. The wave skimming attacks didn’t allow the fuse to arm and over 8 ships escape with non exploding bomb hits!
Note that the Nesher is based on the Mirage v, it has no radar and it had no jammer! Couple this with the very short range of the aircraft meant that not only could they not maneuver if they had to get back home, their flight paths were predictable and all the Harrier needed to do was go wait for them @ point X and Y and shoot them down! The Shafrir 2 has proven itself in 1973!
Also, the daggers only completed their Finger upgrade after the war and after the US refused to grant export license for the J79!
Israel didn’t deny the Argentine support and were only force to ‘behave’ by the US!
‘RUMORS UNPROVEN’?
The Kfir was operational in 75/76 and couldn’t have fought in 1973. Moreover, the Mig 21s in that war were as good as if not better than those the Vietnamese were using to grub the USAF
As for the drones, Oga Jimmy has spoken my mind!
Oga Ifiok, I never said Israel made Argentina lose the war. They joined western arms embargo that is what I said. That is also public information and fact. Someone wrote a book to claim covert Israeli support for Argentina against Britain, that is a personal opinion and not public fact. Hard for Israel to fight secretly against America’s biggest ally, the USA will know and call Israel to order, and the Jews will obey. Hard to believe Israel will work to kill British nation, hard to believe.
There is a big differenrce between traditional national political ideology and one PM Menachem Begin not liking Margaret Thatchers face. Leaders come and go at random, but national ideology stays until the nation changes it. Israel is pro-USA/NATO/EU, the fact has not changed.
Someone posted that Kfir did well IN 1973 war, I said yes, why? The Kfir fought in 1973 as Mirage V. Kfir is an upgraded Mirage V. That fact won’t change. Kfir first flew in 1973, we don’t know if it was experimented in the war for tests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Kfir
Kfri C.2 upgrade was done for Argentina in 1980 just 2 years years before the war. All Israeli jet launched missiles failed to hit any target in Falkland war, Harrier shot down 9 Neshers, the Nesher shot down nothing. Facts enough, I dont care what both sides put on their jets, won’t change the history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Nesher
Israeli Shafir missile failed in Falkland war, show me one British aircraft it shot down…
“the Shafir was only carried on the 1st of May, after that the Arg. AF decided that they were useless. ”
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?79166-Argentine-Dagger-Falklands-loadouts
FACTS OF HISTORY IS HARD TO CHANGE, LET US LEAVE EXCUSES ASIDE OGA MI !
jimmy says:
July 5, 2014 at 2:43 pm
The shaldags were bought brand new.
REPLY
My senior Oga Jimmy, I salute you sir. My comment said some Shaldag, not all of them, yes we read reports some of the Shaldags were second had refurbished and mixed with brand new ones…the navy got angry with that. Story was published, issue was closed because the said to be second hand Shaldags very few units, worked as good as the brand new ones they were mixed with. No be today Israel dey take style push questionable equipment to Nigeria. Their philosophy is shown in the marketing of 30 to 40 years old Kfri jets as “good as new”.
Those two of the lightly used shaldags must have been sent to us “as good as new” mixed with the othersfour real brand new ones.
“The sale of two Shaldag boats made by Israel Shipyards to the Nigerian navy for $25 million – more than double the cost of these ships, which is an estimated $10 million combined. The Nigerians later claimed they were promised new boats, but instead received used ones from the Israeli navy surplus that had been upgraded.”
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/inside-intel-meanwhile-back-in-nigeria-1.314084
NO SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE MOST OF THE TIME.
Oga jimmy, chop remain for me o ! All those yankee four layer beef burgers !
So it is almost certain we are getting the Kfirs. The Israeli interests on ground are just too powerful for that not to happen. Who is that fella who comes around here often to rattle out official MOD press releases verbatim and says there is no corruption in the military?
The Argentinians continued to receive support form the US, particularly with their A4s and carrriers, the French continued assisting with the Exocets and Super Etendards, The Israelis continue support with the Kfirs.
The Argentinians were simply outfought in the air, again a comprehensive argument for the importance of training, tactics and procedures over equipment
Come on now oga PECCAVI Haba !!!
I have kept quiet for way too long on this issue because I AM NOT AN AIR EXPERT ( CAPITAL EMPHASIS MINE) however to all who have mentioned and forgotten what the ARGIES actually did
Here are the facts:
The Argentinian were definitely not out fought in the AIR even the American time Magazine that openly supported the Brits gave credit where credit was due
1. It is on record the first EXOCET KILL was against a British NAVAL SHIP which at that time lacked the appropriate counter measures it promptly went down .
2. The Argentine AIR FORCE fought bravely and Doggedly and as a result close to 10+ BRITISH NAVAL ships were either completely destroyed or outright sunk, on the flip side Argentina lost a generation of very Brave pilots which till today have never recovered from.
3.Let me restate this @ no point did BRITAIN face imminent defeat the problem was getting their TROOPS ON SHORE as they were continually being Strafed, Bombed and Sunk.
4 .At least to the best of my just completed – high-school/ Polytechnic – memory (1981) One British Harrier jet was brought down by AAA / in a dog fight. The British airforce did not at any time overwhelm the Argentinian airforce despite OVERWHELMING info being given to them by the YANKS.
5. One of the most controversial actions that WASHINGTON took was to resupply Britain WITH EVERYTHING they needed as the war progressed and I mean E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G ( This was the special relationship that the then DEF sec Casper Weinberger ( late) talked about.
6. The Argentinians asked for more weapons from the US and they got the predictable NO .
7. This did not tip the scales in Britain favor however it helped reassure MAGGIE that once the Brits got on land it would be all over.
8 .They (The Argentinians) were literally routed on land (massacred) by the British Army who had to weather an intense bombing campaign while on the ships and then to witness two particular galling incidents one of their most Popular Officers at the time LT . COL ” H” JONES on recce was ambushed and shot dead. The second incident was during the fog of war the first initial sets of soldiers ( BRITS) to land either believed the Argentinian Soldiers were trying to surrender / not surrender any way these BRITS let their guard down for just one second and scores were killed. ( These were the only real British army/ Royal Marine casualties. The reaction was typical BRITISH after that they simply just wiped out any ARGENTINIAN soldiers they came across till they all surrendered .No quarter given.
9 .One of the reasons why Britain did order / manufacture TWO AIRCRAFT CARRIERS was as (A) A warning to anyone who would think to ever challenge BRITAIN again that far away from Britain. (B) The lack of Enough Aircraft that extended the Falklands war and caused considerable damage (loss of ships and life) to the British Navy.
Oga Peccavi, how ur side? I hope it all roses and blues.
As for the Falklands, yes training and tactics was good on the British side, but the Harriers were a no choice fielding for the British with the CVA retired and the Jaguars/HMS Hermes not followed through!
However, had the Argentines been thinking straight and had just extended the runway @ Stanley to accept Mirage III, that war would have ended differently whether the British won or not! There is no amount of training, tactics and procedure that would have helped the Argentines in the face few tanker assets and short legged radarless aircraft against British forces.
As for the American and French help, those were just mouthed! Had the French continued to deliver exocet and etendard, again that war would have ended differently! Also, it took no time to get counter measures for the exocets! Could they have had French help? Just thinking!
As for
On the Americans, the Argentines had long been under embargo as a result of the Dirty War (even ejector sits were malfunctioning) and they refused the sale of kfir or even A4H skyhawks. I’m not sure I know about the American support u mentioned!
Oga Jimmy, I’m not an air expert either but let me correct some errors. The Argentinians were outfought in air to air combat. The Argentinian Air Force was without doubt the most aggressive and courageous service however their tactics and strategy were wrong. They focussed on attacking the war ships and attempting to attack the carriers rather than the logistics ships. The logistics ships had no defences and carried all the stores, the single ship sunk Atlantic Conveyor took out all but one of the Chinooks, meaning troops had to walk. Argentinian air attacks against ground troops were fairly ineffective, their attacks focussed mainly on the ships (quite rightly).
The UK forces were operating off a carrier, Argentinian jets were operating at almost thee edge of their operational range, This gave the RN local superiority a they had a longer loiter time, the Argentinians had to either win their dog fights in a few minutes or turn for home.
The US gave the UK satellite imagery, the same as they gave Saddam. As I said they kept maintaining the A4s and other equipment. What exactly did the US resupply the UK with? What US equipment did they use. The only US equipment of note were stingers which were being tested by UKSF at the time who took it with them. What weapons did the Argentinians need from the US> Their key war winning weapon was the Exocet.
The Argentinians were not massacred. Casualties in KIA were 4:1. Approx 250 UK to 1000 Argentinians.
H Jones was not killed on a recce, he was killed because he tried to do the job of a corporal. By attacking an enemy position rather than commanding his battalion. An officer and a soldier were killed in the white flag incident. It was an accident. The statement that the British forces wiped out any Argentinians they came across is ridiculous and completely untrue. The first and last casualties through the Field hospital were Argentinian and after the battle of Goose Green where the two incidents above took place over 1000 were taken prisoner. I’m not sure what typical British fashion is but I’m all ears.
Britain is a maritime power, carriers are a key component of a their naval force
Okay now make we talk.Right on about the Lt.col no arguments there that is your turf. Let me help you with the not so sure help the yanks gave the brits.Because of the havoc the AAF was wreaking the americans did not just supply the brits with sat imagery but it was alleged anytime any single aircraft took of from argentina .The brits new where and when.When the brits were in danger of running out of bombs for their aircraft. According to the memoirs of the us def sec .maggie was repeatedly ,reassured that resupply bombs would not be a problem.Not to sound cold and with respect to all grunts the argies should of concentrated on bombing more of the troop carrying ships.Only one was bombed. The fog of war incident I am quoting I believe took place on the very first intial landing I also may stand corrected I believe it was at port stanley, let me get back to you on that.My point is it served to boost the morale of the british troops no they did not massacare any argies calm down poor choice of words. I meant after those two incidents any fire fight that happened after that was a rout as even your numbers indicate. T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network
Nice talk gentlemen. Nigeria is blessed with smart brains like you all, I wonder why our country is still struggling to be great. Paradox.
My small lines from expert top military analysts of Falkland war, I can’t post those great videos as we were not allowed personal copies after we watched.
1. Argentina lost the air war to Britain. Harrier beat the Nesher/Kfir. Sidewinder AAM beat Shafir AAM.
Jet fighter power won the air for Britain.
2 . In conventional war, loss of air supremacy to the enemy can ruin your army unless you have great anti-aircraft capability.
3. Argentina lost the sea war to Britain, Cruiser General Belgrano was sunk. Submarine Santa Fe was sunk. San Luis submarine torpedo wires were wrongly connected in a simple error, all torpedoes fired but failed to hit.
Submarine power won the sea for Britain.
4. Loss of sea power in a war fought on an Island means you cannot resupply your army or reinforce.
5. British special forces landed in dark night and the men destroyed Argentine Pucara COIN aircraft based at Falkland airport. This assured Britain of land war with zero air threat from Argentina. 14,000 Argentine soldiers were on a small island and a few dozen or so British SAS men were destroying Argentine air force combat aircraft on the ground parked inside their airbase !
Top quality soldiers won the land for Britain.
6. Argentina lost the land war because they had a bad General, and the army was the weak-link in the chain of Argentine military power.
The Argentine air force pilots were as brave as the best in the world, they did very well. Britain respects but hates them. They lost the air because Britain had better jets and missiles. The world has not seen braver pilots than the Argentines from 1982 till today.
7. Argentine army surrendered to a smaller British force that has less heavy equipment to use. Well, Argentina had a bad army, poor quality of men. Simple as ABC.
https://suite.io/christopher-eger/1my27m.
Lesson for Nigeria is : Build all 3 armed forces to good standards of quality men and equipment.
You all spoke well gentlemen, I salute you all.
Thank you aburo mi T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network
Been trying to post all day but coming belle up
Oga Peccavi, they focused on attacking any ship though carriers were their 1st target! Remember, unlike the British who had US recon sat support, the Argentines had to depend on a few S2 trackers, C130 and later civilian planed for recon! So, individual ship identification capability was non existent!
The was only one dog fight took place on may 1 btw Mirage III and Harriers which the British won, the odds were overwhelmingly in their favour! They had GCI from RN ships.
The US denied the Argentines spare parts and this was since the dirty war, a war they supported as it was against the leftists! By 1978 Jimmy Carter stopped all military cooperation under section 502B of the
Foreign Assistance Act (until 89) and Israel became Argentina’s main supplier
US kept the arms flowing to the UK, also allowed them draw from NATO stock guaranteeing to replenish for the UK while also taking over their responsibility in the Northern Atlantic allowing UK a free hand to deploy both men and material! What more could the UK ask for?
The ratio was 3:1 as Argentine casualty was 600+.
Oga Augustine: I agree generally with your assessment, although the problem with the Argentinian Army was not just the general but the general system of treating soldiers like shit, not feeding them or training them properly and expecting soldiers from a hot tropical country to function on a cold, icy, boggy, windswept shithole of an island without appropriate training and leadership
I also do not understand about hating the Argentinian Airforce, on the contrary they were highly respected for their courage and there have ben regular meetings not just of opposing pilots but also remarkably of soldiers who were bombed on the Sir Galahad who met the pilot who bombed them.
Oga Ifiok: The Argentinians had submarines and land based observers and radar. The UKs intelligence did ntt come from US satellite imagery, bear in mind in those days there was no real time imagery, it was still photos. The main intel came from Chile who had a border dispute with Argentina and saw this as an opportunity to destroy their armed forces.
UK used its own weaponry, There were no operations going on that the US stepped in to cover, the troops deployed were not taken of any other task, they were not taken from Germany, Northern Ireland or any other place. US support was insignificant
Oga Jimmy: You are referring to the Battle of Goose Green not the landing at San Carlos Water, the landing was unopposed. Yes the Argentinians should have attacked the Canberra and other logistics ships but unfortunately their navy which had a carrier and subs refused to fight after the loss of the Belgrano. if the Carrier group and subs had deployed the carriers would have had to push out further to sea to avoid them and have more room for manoeuvre, leaving the troops on the beach with a tiny resupply window and denying them the AA cover of the destroyers
@ Oga Augustine,
1. Yes they did, but not because there were anything wrong with the Mirage or Shafir but strategy was wrong, they would have extended the runway of Stanley to operate the Mirages and Skyhawks! Also, tactics was also wrong. Had they made squadron size instead of flight size formations, more would have escaped with the info that their bombs were not detonating and they would have swarm they Harriers! However, these planes (skyhawks) needed tankers and those were simply not enough
2. Correct
3. Very correct. In fact this threat cause the Argentines to stop using their own carrier and to operate from land placing restrictions on their range! Funny enough, the threat of the single operational SSK was enough to restrain the RN from bringing their own carriers closer as well as delayed their landing, JUST ONE OLD SSK
4. Very correct! This alone my not have suffice but couple with opposition air superiority and even the air option is denied!
5. Very correct! The Argentines left their air fields virtually unprotected! No barb wires, mines, flood lights and foot patrols! But we must remember that the Brits weren’t just a few well trained and experienced force, they had nos too!
Yes, majority of the Argentine forces were constripts, not properly equipped, trained, motivated, feed, kitted against the element! They were even lied to! Except for a few battalions of marines and fewer paratroopers, all of Argentina’s professional soldiers were held in reserve to defend against a Chilean attack!
6. Perhaps, this is the TRUEST of them all, BAD LEADERSHIP
6b. Again like I said, the planes and missiles had little to do with who came up on top
7. Refer to 5 above
As for ur conclusion, I’m in total support! Cheers
On the other hand, the Brits won on the diplomatic front hands down! This war taught some very important lesson that are still valid today! Lesson we must not forget
The key lesson of the war is that well trained, well led, aggressive troops are better than well equipped or more numerous ones.
The Brits were fighting at the end of a long supply line, against a numerically superior enemy. Thee Brits never attained total air supremacy, they obtained sea supremacy but because there were still Argentinian subs they had to keep an ASW screen as well.
It was luck and skill, but the skilful create their own luck.
The lessons in poor leadership, logistics, strategy, tactics, force protection, soldier welfare and management are all still pertinent today and in conflicts closer to home
On point! Perhaps the biggest lesson (though often overlooked) is that (paraphrasing from ugly) … ‘If u wanna fight, fight…’ Its foolishness to commit halfway, to underestimate ur enemy and to assume everyone will be on ur side! Commit as if ur very life depends on it! Had we had such mind set, our excursion in the NE would have been approached differently and would have had a different outcome by no!
Also, leave inter service rivalry out and think TEAM! Had those in command thought this way, they would made decisions differently!
Finally, war fought for the wrong reason almost always ends badly
Good morning
Yes seconded.
The argentines have themselves to blame, before war was declared the argies did a naval maneover at the coast of the falklands (they called it malvinas). What did they learn from it? Secondly the british did a very splendid undercover op. To deny the transfer me exocet parts. In the first few weeks of war the HMS ANTELOPE AND HMS GLASGOW Was hit and damaged against 6 mirage and 2 skyhawks in san carlos waters (then it was called ‘death valley’), i think that was when HMS coventry was sunk. I remember when the commander of the navy then, a member me the 3 man junta running the country said ‘we might as well not have a navy for all the good it does, thank god for the airforce. True heroes all those lads’. This was in the beginning me the war. Then the brits called it ‘argentinan crises’.
Moving on, gallegos airbase was the op base for the skyhawks. One method the brits use to counter the exocet threat was to use the sea kings as decoys. They hover, present an attractive radar targets, protecting tin ship of the fleet. The idea is to gain height quickly at the last moment possible, so that the missile passes beneath them. The famous 802 squadron was tasked for this, that was where prince andrew served.
HMS coventry and atlantic conveyor was lost on may 24 (argentinian national day) that was when the british really went to war.
At that time the libyan had plenty supply of the precious exocets but due to pressure from the arab world colonel ghadafi was not able to release them to the argies.
Due to arm embargo imposed by france it gave argentina big problem, during the battle me goose green the brits suffered the lose of a C.O. Because of bad intel. The argies also managed to sink HMS SHEFIELD. The argies didnt use much of their opportunity well. The falkland war was the most astonishing feat of combined arms since second world war. When the navy withdrew that was the begining of their defeat.
Secondly they should have engaged the harriers on the air first denying the british air cover before going after the naval vessels. But the british had rapier short range missiles which was a formidable weapon at the time. Before you go to war gather your resources then commit totally.
**Correction**
please all ‘me’ should be changed to ‘of’.
Typo errors.
Oga Triggah, well said! I figure out the me meant of! Tech wahala! Sha, like I said earlier, had the Argentines move Mirages, skyhawks and super etendard to the Island, that war might well have ended differently! Just. might! U could be denied the sea by sub and survive by aerial replenishment but losing the air meant the war would go inland!
But Oga this is where you get into the depth of it. My favourite question. Why didn’t they?
The why s because the UK bombed Stanley Airport with their V Bombrs, the raid was tactically unsuccessful and barely damaged the runway, or any of the stores, but it demonstrated the vulnerability of their aircraft to long range high altitude bombers they couldn’t easily detect or defend against, combined with the Pebbl Island raid, it made the Falklans to dangerous a place to store critical assets like fast jet. Add to that the added logistical strain of stores, ammunition and ground crew.
So we can see the strategic effect of what look like minor tactical actions, raiding airfields by ground and air, caused Argentinian planners to throw way a trump card
I disagree my Oga! It was the myopic misinterpretation of their actions (thinking it was just a political action) and under estimation of the opposition (sail thousands of miles to recapture some ‘insignificant set of islands)! Like I said, they totally misread the situation and were more propelled by domestic consideration and stupidly committed without resolve and a clear direction of what to do the s**t went south! Those vulcans wouldn’t stand a Mirage III, not in this life or the life after! The vulcans only made that/those sortie(s) because the was no fighter flying CAP!