NAVISTAR MAXXPRO MRAP
CAIMAN MRAP
THE NEWS
7 January 2016
The United States will handover to the Nigerian army today 24 mine-resistant and armour-protected vehicles, as part fulfilment of its promise to help Nigeria in its war against Boko Haram insurgents.
The vehicles valued at $11m, would be handed over to the military authorities at the Nigerian Army 9th Brigade Parade Ground, Ikeja Army Cantonment in Lagos.
This was contained in a statement by the Public Affairs Section of the United States Consulate General Lagos on Wednesday.
“The US is pleased to donate 24 Mine-Resistant, Armour- Protected (MRAP) vehicles valued at $11m to Nigeria’s military authorities.
“The equipment donation represents part of the continuing US
commitment to Nigeria and its neighbours to counter Boko Haram’s senseless acts of terror and promote regional security.”
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for the num,ber they have in storage and considering that teh Oshkosh vehicle(cant rem d name) is coming into production, i think 24 is small. Nonetheless, thank you , I’ll take them, thats less soldiers that have to move around in soft skinned vehicles.
A beggar has no right to choose. Since Nigeria prefers to waste its resources on things it doesn’t need rather than invest in its institutions and people, we should happily accept our new status of self-inflicted destitution. We should fall down on the floor with sand in our face and say thank you Uncle Sam, please go easy on us when you make your demands for some scratch me I scratch you ‘cos uncle sam never truly gives a free lunch. Come to think of it, didn’t Chad, Niger, Cameroon and little Benin republic come to our aid by helping us fight BH when money was being distributed for chop chop instead of being used for weapons?
Abeg, thank Amerika joor!
They are already in Lagos, I saw one last week
Good news. However on the sustainability side its one more facet to our already multifaceted vehicle fleet. Further headache to our maintenance people.
In 3-5 years these vehicles will litter our barracks as potential raw materials for Ajaokuta Steel’s Smelters.
Not to be too negative but if out experience of the NPF culture is to go by they are going to turn these MRAPs into static checkpoints / emplacements
Such is the mindless staticity in internal security culture that what we will see us that ;
2 of these MRAPs would be in front of governors office, another 2 would be parked infront of state house of assembly, 2 each in front of CBN offices Maiduguri, Yola, 2 in front of Lafiya Dole hq., 2 in front of Unimaid…..and so on.
Some young major now writes a lengthy memo in the best of queens English to his CO that he has “..fairly disbursed twenty (20) of the anti explosion vehicles donated by the American government…two (2) of the remaining four vehicles will form part of convoy of his CO , the last two (2) would be in storage..”
The troops hunting Boko Haram insurgents should be the ones riding these vehicles. HesCo, Sandbags , concrete medians only are used for static defence.
I respect yr hustle……………U got me laffing very harrrrrrrrrrrrd.
A lot needs to change. Ass kissing pays no one.
Bulls-eye Are James. Some Instagram pictures seem to point to the fact (I stand to be corrected) that our SBS now form part of the CNS’s protective convoy.
And ChannelsTV stil has old video clips and still photos of MRAP check points or choke points, paradoxically well protected by sandbags…lol
And two in front of some VIP’s gf’s house, and maybe another two parked outside oga’s favourite road side joint….
I hope all of them will be driven to the North East, there will be no Military reason for them to remain in the SW after tomorrow.
Kudos to the American Government for sending these MRAPs if they are responsible for saving the lives of just 24 Soldiers they have done their job.
We await the pictures so we know what we are getting.
We will take them.However, we need standardisation of these mraps. The mix is getting embarrassing.
One variant should go to a future specialized COIN unit.
In other news, Algieria has just ordered 12 nos. SU 34 fullbacks, according to sputnik.Abuja is now well within range of algiers with no possible reply.
Range between tamanrasset and Abuja is 1560km,for lagos 1830km. The combat range of the jet on internal fuel is 1100km and a standoff range of 250km. If you consider that we haven’t added external fuel neither is tamanrasset the southernmost tip of algeria, then it is worringly close to our oil installations. However, this is about a sane country planning about the ISIS threat in the Sahara. I wonder who else is planning south of the dunes……If the french legion leaves the sahara, well, lets leave it at if.We just seem to be 2 steps behind.
The Algerians are looking more formidable with each passing day, i wonder what their training is like?
Sputnik did say we are possible customers for the fullback,but that sounds like salesman stuff.
http://m.sputniknews.com/military/20160106/1032735202/russia-su34-bomber-algeria.html
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Isn’t some of those made in Nigeria? Igirigi i think, heading to Libya
Edward @DonKlericuzio Jan 6
A shipment of 134 armed vehicles has arrived in Libya and will immediately be used by the LNA at the war fronts
saw the comparison on this nairaland thread http://www.nairaland.com/1386870/african-militaries-security-services-strictly/314 scroll down and you’ll see the pics. It really does appear to be the IGIRI
IGIRIGI TOH BAD
Sir Kay. I respect your hustle sir.
NAIJA. I HAIL THEE.
It certainly is the same design as the Igirigi. I dont want to be negative but I dont see Nigeria exporting 100 Igirigi types to Libya while we’re in dire need of replacing the hilux trucks. Unless we have been able to somehow ramp up production. If indeed these are from Nigeria, then big kudos.
If the production of the APC has been privatised and commercialised, then they can be exported without Nigeria using them, it is left for NA to buy them or not and the export does not depend on that.
It looks much bigger. Does Nigeria actually have a hundred Igirigis?
All good and well. These “hand me down’s” and harp hazard buying will complicate our logistics and support.
why not standardize on the big-foot, Igirigi variants and the Reeva? Then withdraw all Toyota trucks from the front lines?
If only our military top brass had been serious when the cash was flowing!
PS: Is it me or are the Otokar cobra APC seeing less action?
Oga Russellinfinity, Otokar Cobra is not seen much in combat again nowadays for some reasons.
1. Attrition, several Cobras destroyed by superior Boko Haram firepower.
2. North East is now full of IEDs, MRAPs now lead most of NA columns.
3. Weak firepower : Nigerian has spoiled the market of the Cobra worldwide by allowing Boko Haram to capture and use them for videos on YouTube spreading it and putting the good Cobra APC to shame across the world.
It’s not the Cobra’s fault, it’s the fault of Nigerian ministry of defence officials who in the days of our oil selling at $80 to $120 per barrel, bought Nigerian army Cobras with inferior guns/firepower 5.56mm light machine gun to fight 14.5mm AAA and 23mm x 2 cannon of Boko Haram, the Bokos just roasted our Cobras or captured the ones soldiers abandoned.
MoD/FG should have bought Nigerian army Cobras in various variants, 20mm dual feed auto-cannon, 14.5mm heavy machine gun, 40mm automatic grenade launcher, multi-barrel rapid fire Gatling gun, LAW anti-tank rocket, 81mm mortar, anti-tank guided missiles.
Same reason Nigerian BTR-3 came with APC guns instead of IFV cannon and ATGM, fault of Nigerian MoD and FG procurement officers who always buy the weakest of weapons for Nigerian military. It has not stopped, just 2014 Nigeria imported BTR-4 IFV with no ATGM, the launchers came empty, covered with tarpaulin cloths. Shame !
However, I will recommend that NA spend some money to put 30mm cannon on all our BTR-3 and add the guided missile launchers, then buy ATGM missiles for the 40 combat BTR-3 and 10 BTR-4 (Army guide says we ordered 10 units), then Nigeria will have 50 full capability IFVs at least to start with. We need minimum of 200 units of NATO standard IFVs reality for our huge army size, including BTR-4 with 120mm tank destroyer main gun and communications/command and control centre variants too.
Let our new government and COAS please spend the little money we have to get maximum firepower on Nigerian platforms/equipment, so that our soldiers will not be running away or getting massacred by superior enemy firepower.
On the USA donated MRAPs, like I always said, it will happen, it is normal international principles of countries that have social, economic, diplomatic, or military relationship. The usually chip in some material support for their ally/friend/business partner.
That is what USA, Germany, Britain, France and Netherlands are doing with all these donations, we still look out for such diplomatic show of solidarity from Italy and Japan.
Let us remember that this is the second US donation for the Boko war, so let us not say it is small, what about those first batch of Toyota Landcruisers in 2014, the Humvees of 2015 (
….Landcruisers in 2014, the Humvees of 2015 (Numbers unknown).
About these new MRAPs, let us just use them heavily for the urgent need of war. When they wear out in three years, we can ‘retire’ them to static/fixed defensive/guard position duties.
Nigerian army has so many armoured vehicles that should just be used to wear out and dumped after the war, all these old MOWAGS, BTR-60, BTR-70, old armoured cars from 1970/1980s vintage, we should standardize and build an easy to maintain fleet.
Some of the old vehicles and new MRAPs like these USA donations can also be used after our current war, in UN/AU peace keeping missions where the maintenance burden is not on us.
The American MRAPs can be test-bed for Nigerian army using dual ammo feed 20 mm autocannon, we need to step up anti-Boko Haram firepower and learn to use all types of ammo interchanged manually or automatically on one same heavy machine gun and cannon….HE, HET, HEI, HEFT, AP, API, APIT, APDS.
May Nigeria never buy this type of APC, ACV, LAV, or IFV again or ever arm them like this:
Amen
Sorry for mixed up pic….
May Nigeria never buy this type of APC, ACV, LAV, or IFV again or ever arm them like this:
This is the type of Cobra or other APC-LAV Nigeria should buy, even our Igirigi and MRAPS…big guns for big war !
Yes alot have been destroyed however they are still in the NE like the mowags, it’s just that most pics coming out are of the new toys
Amen
update with pictures:- US donates 24 used mine-resistant vehicles to Nigeria
http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/196345-us-donates-24-used-mine-resistant-vehicles-to-nigeria-2.html
damn, look at the door of the first one in that pic, so filthy, they couldn’t clean these things or something before handing them over?
Happy new year fellow bloggers!
Thanks to the US for giving these MRAPs to Nigeria. However, I wish Nigerian army would really think about standardisation of equipment for once. There are perhaps a dozen variants of APCs currently serving with the Nigerian armed forces and several of them come as used. The problem is that these vehicles often require more servicing as they age, especially after what they have been put through in Afghanistan. Ultimately, the cost of servicing these vehicles would be a good source of revenue for the original equipment manufacturers meanwhile in a few years from now, I am afraid, these platforms would become metal junks in the army workshop.
Secondly, these vehicles came naked. I really wish the US would have transferred them with the slat armour, instead they stripped them bare. As it is, the protection offered is better than that of Landrover, Landcruiser or hillux a dozen times, but just like every other basic armour, these vehicles would be roasting pots in the face of RPGs.
I actually think Nigeria should spend her own money buying and building equipment to transport her own troops, I personally would prefer a gift of 4 Cessna planes with surveillance equipment to these 24 MRAPs, Nigeria really needs aerial equipment for border patrols.
All the same, thank you US.
They look more like the Caiman MRAP
Food for thought anyone?
From Premium Times: http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/196345-us-donates-24-used-mine-resistant-vehicles-to-nigeria-2.html#
Mr. Ndiomu noted that some of the armoured vehicles are not serviceable and requested for help from the US to procure their spare parts.
“The defence adviser has actually told me about certain steps we need to take. As soon as I return to Abuja, I’ll pass this information on to the appropriate authorities so we can initiate the process.”
The 24 armoured vehicles are worth $11 million (brand new ones), according to Mr. Doyle, and the other expected eight are valued at $7.5 million.
”The repairs of the vehicles is up to the Nigerian government to do that,” he said.
“They can repair them on their own and they have the facilities to do that, but of course the spare parts are very particular to these vehicles so the General and I have been discussing and we have been in discussions with the army previously and we were working modalities on how we will get those parts to them.
“They will have to order those parts from the United States and we will work out those conditions and how they will do that but when you say they will pay the United States, the easiest way to do that is to open a government-to-government case, where we can then work with them to ensure they get the correct parts and get them in a time and manner and from the correct manufacturers and the parts they actually need.
Weird to send out without fixing them up at least. Once we do something naughty, they’ll slyly prevent the shipping of parts.
Let them just standardise our military vehicle lines, all this is extra headache.
They dashed us J.U.N.K!
All of you are seeing it now abi?
Wey Oga Jimmy????
When i abuse these americans now, una go call me wailer.
Sebi una dey see?
These MRAPs are just IED-proof V-hulls built on a chassis, covered in armour plate and powered by Cummins or Caterpillar diesel engines. Absolutely nothing special here.
NAEME can maintain the vehicle with eyes closed.
The electronics is a different matter but not a big problem in any way. I believe there are many dual use components in every currently available MRAP, the speed of development of the MRAP concept and speed of manufacture point to nothing less.
trainee fighter pilots from Nigeria among others were present in Pathankot Air Force station India during the terrorist attack from Pakistan – India border.
this is interesting , ***trainee fighter pilots*** from Nigeria in India ?
if they were trainee helicopter pilots from Nigeria training in India it would have made sense.
but Nigerian fighter pilots training in India don’t make sense.
it is a total conflict of interest .
don’t know what to make of it
maybe u all can figure it out..
Trainee fighter pilots belonging to Afghanistan, Nigeria, Sri Lanka and Myanmar were present at the Pathankot air base on the day the terrorist attacked.
This was revealed by Lt Gen KJ Singh, Army Commander, Western Command.
Nigeria, Sri Lanka and Myanmar these countries have something in common.
FC1/JF17 right 😀 😀
This should not come as a surprise to you. Nigeria/ Indian Relationships go way back to the Establishment of what became known as the Nigerian Defence Academy in 1963 soon after Nigeria became a republic. A significant portion of Nigeria’s Generals actually studied in India in fact two HOS ( IBB and OBJ) studied there.
The relationship has been there for quite a while it has had it’s ups and down likw any other Relationships between Countries (And during your time studying for your Exams/ self imposed Exile) some of the Indian top Military Echelon visited Nigeria to meet some of their former classmates/ student , the visit was also to really build upon that and encourage BI- lateral visits between both Countries thus it is VERY PLAUSIBLE that India is training some Nigerian Pilots.Note there are also pictures of some Nigerian SF also training in India.
Pakistan
Ironically this relationship also STARTED in the 60s/ 70s in a twist of fate .,the current HOS (PMB) studied in Pakistan. The relationship with Pakistan was not Cemented by PMB rather oddly enough it was done by IBB ( INDIA) who was bent on buying SUBS and having our Naval personnel trained in Pakistan. Fast forward to modern times ( 2000s) Pakistan and Nigeria have held joint SF training ( Army & Navy) , Nigeria has had problems with the F-7 ( both owned by India and Pakistan) they turned to Pakistan for assistance.
lolzzz I knew all that u wrote now,
all I was trying is to post / ask the readers if anybody had any additional clue / info regarding training of nigerian fighter pilots in India.
was it basic ? intermediate ? fighter type conversion training ?
pathankot airbase houses MI35 attack so maybe it had to do with helicopter training / tactics / SOPs etc
F-7 ( both owned by India and Pakistan)
lets correct it a little.
initially F7 were derivatives of mig 21s , but they both ended up somewhat different at the end.
weapons / sensors operated by Indian migs were of Russian / soviet / Israeli origin.
weapons / sensors operated by Pakistani F7s were predominately Chinese and also western origin, which is why NAF approached Pakistan for the bombs etc. since the weapons / bombs were already certified for both the PAF AND NAF Chinese origin fighter jets and were available at short notice due to commonality of platforms and already done type certification of the weapons to the F7s.
India was not in the picture because the soviet / Indian bombs and weapons would have to be certified and flight tested due to different aircraft types , and this would have taken a long time and would be costly. this is main reason.
so NAF took a very wise decision to approach PAF since it needed to boost its armoury (ammo / spares ) of F7S at very short notice with any additional technical hassle.
a smart move by Indonesia.
Korea Aerospace Industries and Indonesia have reached a cost-sharing agreement for the development of their next generation KF-X/IF-X fighter aircraft.
The agreement was signed by South Korea’s only aircraft manufacturer and the Indonesian Ministry of Defense. Also included in the deal was Indonesian contractor PT Dirgantara Indonesia. PTDI will send 100 engineers to South Korea in May to participate in the aircraft’s structural development.
Antara News reports Indonesia will fund 20 percent of the $7.2 billion program, which aims to replace South Korea’s aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 aircraft. Indonesia will procure two squadrons of the aircraft.
The fighter is expected to be completed by 2025.
Nigeria should just fund a JV with Proforce and speed up the development and production of Proforce ARA MRAP….or what is the cause of delay of made in Nigeria MRAP? The NE war zone REVA MRAP that got struck by IED in the photo where it overturned and the MRAP flipped over on it’s side in a tumble, makes we wonder about the quality of the REVA, except the IED is very high explosive size that can rip a tank apart, not just blow out some tracks.
Igirigi heading for Libya? We export or we donated? Both will cause some worry, we need more igirigi here in Boko war theatre. Anyway, let us not openly fight ISIS unprovoked, one enemy at a time is easier.
Oga Are, I barely could hold back tears from my eyes as I almost laughed away my breath. Very typical.
On the gift, FG, pls say thanks with a smile, and quickly source for fund to produce the Igrigri. We need something for fire support. I don’t know the condition of the 90mm on the Amls, we can design and build a new turret and mate it to the igrigri derivative strengthen to carry more weight. Let’s buy what we can’t build
Abeg o, na auto correct, *igirigi
The cascaval, Aml, Piranhas all need replacement. The igirigi could serve as a base with a 3rd and 4th axle. RWS all the way from 12.7mm – 35mm. Turret for motars 60-120mm, guns 72-105mm. More powerful engine with better cooling. Amphibious. Modular armor up to 18t combat weight. I believe this to be doable in little time, if we want. When this is done, we look @ track amour. Scorpions and variants, saurer, MT LB, bmp, all needs to be withdrawn and demilitarized and gifted to the mech/auto mech engineering department of all polytechnics and universities, military and command/comprehensive schools, etc. Others, museums, sentry etc. NAEME, DICON, PROFORCE should all have glean all there is from these relics. Again, we look multi purpose, modular adaptive system. Then, we can go for MBT and SP art. With heart (considering that where your heart is, your money is close by), we can do all these in 5-7yrs.
The Kraz trucks hold an interest for me. These things are rugged and the chassis are heavy duty. A bigger igirigi with the Kraz serving as platform would mean my multi variants igirigi, vast number (cheaper), commonality and ease of maintenance, quick to accomplish dreams will come to pass.
“I believe United States government security cooperation commitment is second to none. We have provided extensive training programmes, logistical supports, and equipment to the Nigerian armed forces and we will continue to do so.”
The reason we are giving the vehicles, we have the Excess Defence Programme, is because we are downsizing forces in our military, we have left Iraq with our forces and we have downsized our forces in Afghanistan and we do not need all these vehicles anymore. So Nigeria asked for these vehicles and we gladly provided it to them.”
Where is my bag of salt?
Hehehe….oga ifiok u are very funny ooo!!! LOL…
By the looks of it, it might seem the Igirigi has been privatized cos it will be insensitive to give other nations what we urgently need. Probably exported by the private company (I might be wrong though)
@ oga Lachit, are u proposing that maybe we might be training for the SU-30 series??? or could it be the Mig-21 bison?? Cos thats the only fighter jet in my point of thought now. Well u can state any other fighter jet u think of. But am racking my brains, how come Pakistani pilots are also training in India with the others?? I thought u guys don’t blend so well. And if we assume that they are training the pilots on the SU-30 series (almost impossible cos of Pakistani presence), how come India is training Pakistan its long time rival on core IAF fighter platforms??
Kindly give me some little education in here, will you??
actually this was a part of a briefing given by Lt Gen KJ Singh, Army Commander, Western Command to the press at the end of terrorist attack at pathankot airbase , where he stated that trainee fighter pilots from 4 countries including Nigeria were at risk of getting harmed during the siege and their safety was accorded priority.
he used term *trainee fighter pilots * and therefor I posted it here.
because this does not make sense as the fighter aircraft types operated ( to be operated )are different in both the countries.
if the general had mentioned *trainee helicopter pilots* it would have made sense because India is one of the countries helping Nigerian army for its army helicopter aviation wing.this I can confirm almost 99%.
so either the general make a mistake , the media made a mistake ( 2 media reported it same to same though ) or maybe anything/nothing.
“how come Pakistani pilots are also training in India with the others?? ”
lolzzz were did I mention it
hehehe u gave me a mini heart attack 😀
No he did not make a mistake.
Oga Abduleez, when incident of this nature happen, I chill out till the fog clears. With time, a clearer picture appears. As for the vehicle in question, we can’t be sure that it’s the igirigi, I could be a Chinese product, or Eastern European. The slant body shape is an industry standard. But without a better picture, its difficult to ID the vehicle
oga RUGGED7
Make you relax take one odeku ( GULDER) and one ” point and kill” ( catfish) on me
First of they are not and OGA OLA in his haste to post should of taken one more SERIOUS look at the door panel he would of seen evidence of some of the Armoured plating.
Lower your B.P.
These are EDA with a caveat ,Nigeria wanted them NOW so you get what you ordered hence they explained why brand new it costs $11 MILLION, The defence attache followed by one of America most senior official the black lady ( I FORGET HER NAME SHE IS IN NIGERIA NEARLY every MONTH) said the following : Some of them have minor problems which can be easily fixed,
the easy roadmap is to do a G2 – G2 arrangement we already have that in progress since the GEJ administration with NN THUNDER and OPKABANA? this will not be a problem + they have already indicated they will get us the parts we need , they cannot be more EXPLICIT than that.
The MRAPS are headed to BAUCHI to see what is needed the parts will be bought , manufactured in America so some American company can make some money and they will be shipped here
Also point to ponder( part 1): The MRAPS arrived by ship New year ‘s week ( This was confirmed by OGA CAMOUFLAGE) and both Countries were eager to highlight this relationship less than a week.
Point to ponder( part 2)
You do know they (NAIJA Engineers) are going to install .50 caliber HMG on these Suckers right?
Point to ponder ( part 3)
Seriously I do not regard you as one of the wailers .I believe you aim to keep the current Govt honest ( Nigeria) and based on the dysfunction with regards to the US Govt’s relationship (2014-2015) you have earned that right to be highly critical of them, I being a Nigerian American as well as Doziex have been Highly critical of them in the past we keep them honest by saying they ( US) can and should do more because that is what allies are supposed to do.
In this instance we should also acknowledge when they GIVE US EQUIPMENT that will save the lives of our fellow Nigerian Soldiers in Battle. T hat we operate on opposite sides of the specturm is irrelevant the respect is still there because bottom line you want what is best for NAIJA.
Jimmy, den why show you are a zombie.tribalism is more deadly dan d worst virus
@ Jimmy, thanks for your opinion. I however checked well before I made my contributions. The vehicles did come NAKED. I know these vehicles very well, the UK (we ) operated in the same theatre and we operated from basically same vehicle models or variants too. Here is what have to say;
1. the metal hangers you see on the body were meant for modular slat armour, not designs, where are the armour?
2. The first generations of those vehicles were deployed naked by the US and the UK but the lessons learnt from engagement with RPGs, high calibre/velocity guns and other incidenaries necessitated additional armour, that was why they were retrofitted with additional layer of protection with the hanger on the body and modular slat armour that can be added or removed, based on the assessment of the threat level.
3. Serious weight problems came from the added armour as they often got stuck in rough terrains because of the weight coming from the added armour.
4. As a rule, US will not hand over the armour to any operator outside the US. THe UK fixed their own armour variant too, which I think was supplied by BAE systems.
That said, I still say thank you to the US as this offers a superior level of protection to hillux and other soft skins or truck beds used by the NA for troop transport. These 24 will transport at least 240 troops, that is a sizeable number! But then, I expect the US to hand them over in fully functional order and throw in additional armour on the body, what is worth doing at all is worth doing well.
* They are not JUNK*
i was typing so fast because if it is a long article it can get lost in the system, please forgive the rest of my typos.
This US donation, apart from making a damning statement about our seriousness as a military force, there is actually a lot of positives we could draw from it. For instance, we could put those MRAPs to specific heavy duty use in the front. The army is currently conducting dangerous missions in Sambisa. Surely these vehicles could come in handy in that regard. But one important thing we seem to be missing is that these US MRAPs could be reverse engineered so that we could learn from the armouring structure, the battle awareness, capabilities, and tech architecture of the MRAPs and then develop the igirigi further along those lines or incorporate and adapt some of what we learn from reverse engineering them into NA needs and then build something within those lines.
I am sure China or even India would be so happy to have an opportunity to reserve engineer these MRAPs to build on what they already have or even for mass production for export. As always, as Nigerians, we only see obstacles rather than opportunities. Nigerians have such an enlarged ego that we tend to take ourselves too seriously.
I want to believe the Nigerian Military Engineers in BAUCHI where the MRAPS are headed first will be ” tinkered with”
You are on point on so many issues.
Oga chynedoo, there is very little to learn about the construction of an MRAP. Even an intelligent roadside mechanic can have a fair go at producing one.
I beg to differ sir. There is a lot to learn from these MRAPs. The current set of MRAPs we are getting, were part of the products the Americans had to build, test run, and send to the soldiers on the frontline in Afghanistan when the Americans started recording very high casualties from Taliban IEDs. So these MRAPs unlike a lot of the ones for the export market, were purpose built for American military use, these MRAPs were the products of counter-insurgency war, they were purpose built for the front and specifically to counter heavy caliber IEDs. The fact we are fighting bh who operate on the same doctrines as the Taliban makes these American MRAPs even more suited to the current NA needs in some of its missions in the NE. While these MRAPs potentially have a lot of flaws for instance, manoeuvrability and stability issues in places that do not have the same topographic/geographical/physical features as Afghanistan, in this case, NE Nigeria were we need them most, that in itself is were our army engineers and R&D gremlins ought to come in and learn, and learn, and learn, and learn more….just for one single aim: build something better that suits our needs.
Nothing should ever be left to chance
If there was nothing to learn about producing MRAPs, the ALL the major coalition countries would not have upgraded their existing inventory based on experiences in Afghanistan.
OGA LACHIT
You know you are splitting hairs right ?
F-7 spawned from MIG-21 has both Russian and Chinese components after US placed the hammer ERR embargo on PAKISTAN ( tell the truth LACHIT you were dancing that Nigerian dance when you heard) all “Western ” parts were removed as far as the affixing of the b—s
one of bloggers told us NigeriaN engineers affixed them from the left over b—-s of the MIG 21 from the Nigerian Civil war , Pakistan on the other hand did come in at the height of the boko haram crisis and did sell provide – valuable logistics to the Nigerian Military.
as far as I know
“” F-7 spawned from MIG-21 has both Russian and Chinese components”
soviet components reverse engineered and then replaced with indigenous Chinese components.
“Pakistan on the other hand did come in at the height of the boko haram crisis and did sell provide – valuable logistics to the Nigerian Military.”
yes they sent spares , ammo for the NAF , and ammo , weapons for the NA during peak boko harem crisis at short notice.
rest I don’t have any detailed info.
“tell the truth LACHIT you were dancing that Nigerian dance when you heard) all “Western ” parts were removed as far as the affixing of the b—s”
did not understand ur post/reply completely .
lolzz I only dance when the partner is worthy of it , and be rest assured nothing else moves me a inch too lazy 😀
ur hairs got split?
ur a very lucky oga
atleast u have hairs to get split
spare a thought for the bald fellows 😀
Proforce seems to be getting no business from Nigerian military, or is there any hope for 2016 ?
What about this Proforce product? The HCMPAV ? With the bulldozer blade in front, Is it designed to clear land mines or just earth moving as it carries about 32 troops into battle? Like a giant MRAP ?
I imagine the vehicle as all terrain drive wheels, with 20mm cannon mounted front hatch, 40mm AGL mounted rear hatch, plus four side hatches, 2 left, 2 right, carrying 5.56mm GPMG, the 32 troops reduced to 24 troops to make room for the guns/gunners on the roof hatches….I think it will become a beast to kill Boko Haram and a very good rapid deployment reinforcement vehicle, just 3 units of it sends a reinforcing batch of 2 platoons with heavy infantry firepower.
President Buhari visited Proforce, I hope something comes out of the visit as we are yet to see any major Proforce sales to Nigerian military armoured vehicle fleet if any at all. The Proforce ARA MRAP is urgently needed, MRAPs are maintenance beasts, we need a 500 vehicle fleet of cheap locally made Nigerian origin/brand MRAPs that can be 100% maintained locally and easily on the battle field by NA mechanics.
Proforce HCMPAV, mine clearing + troop transport ?
Oga Ifiok, Proforce already uparmours military trucks.
http://www.proforcedefence.com/militarytrucks.html
If we buy the KRAZ Soldat trucks and ask Proforce to uparmour them, makes sense. However, it makes more economic sense if we adopt that truck as NA standard and do a deal with the Ukrainian manufacturer to supply the trucks stripped down to base chassis for a new Proforce brand to be based on that chassis and hull/body built up/armoured up by proforce, then a roof hatch and side ports provide defensive fire positions for the occupants.
If Nigeria invests money very wisely, our army’s COIN motorized infantry will be too much for Boko Haram to challenge if we get our vehicle configurations right and step up higher than average levels.
Oga Augustine, good morning. That’s actually what I meant. I would however want to see the NA and PROFORCE working together. Kraz have a number of truck types. I want something heavier. Look at their Kraz 7634! A shortened version of that chassis comes to mind.
The Russians have what I have in mind already in the Kamaz Typhoon 63969 and 63968
So, adopting the Kraz I support, but why no go further beyond the 6322 and explore all that could be of interest to us.
*not go further
Namibia builds world class MRAP, why not Nigeria? We can do this, yes we can !
http://www.janes.com/article/43625/aad-2014-new-namibian-wmf-mk3-mrap-vehicle-makes-show-debut
Some of the Namibian MRAPs are built by a farmer. There is not much to MRAP’s that we need to ally with other countries for. The chassis is bug standard technology, just copy any tractor chassis and you’re done – the problem is that many Nigerian’s are too scared of their own shadows to attempt to build anything.
Lets emphasise that auto engines were invented more than a hundred years ago. The Wright brothers who are known for the first flight were BICYCLE mechanics, yet today we can’t even whip up the courage to build things locally and by ourselves.
Oga Augustine, an MRAP for all intents and purposes, a specialized truck. We’ve been producing trucks for decades. The leap to MRAP isn’t a space jump! We are well capable. Then again, I want us to move to MPAV, ICV and MBT! As for Namibia, they’re had this capacity for a while. I congratulate them. The more reason why we need to support made in 9ja
But, we need to look past buying MRAPs from outside West or East, along with all those other things we can build, (navy, army and air force).
I think the Nigerian military one way or the other is avoiding proforce. Cos i see no reason y they haven’t patronized proforce. If UN (even though the vehicles are for African Countries) bought some of proforce armored vehicles and Nigerian Police bought Some too, i see no excuse ignoring them. Why NA don’t support local industries beats my imagination: from basic bullet proof vests, police batons, APC’s, boots, helmets everything is imported!!! Its just damn so suffocating and frustrating.
To me some bad belles dey there(NA & MOD ) sabotaging Nigeria’s efforts. If they NA generals truly have Nigeria and the gallant soldiers at mind they would have visited proforce to up-armour NA numerous Landcruisers, Hilux and guntrucks since they are screaming lack of funds and no weaponry. What u do is make do with what u have. I think most of these military top brass has run out of ideas and ain’t innovative for my liking/ have nothing to offer.
Just look at how they even arm some of the equipments they get u just wanna cry. Just like what oga Augustine has been clamoring for; from the igirigi to the REVA, BIGFOOT, BTR-4, BTR-90, T-72, F-7NI, ATR-72 all poorly armed!!!!
If some of these platforms have been well armed we wouldn’t be screaming like this for more platforms. When u have less resources to buy more equipments, the best u can do is arm the few u got to the teeth, that even ur enemy gonna shit in his pants just seeing them in action.
If we wan buy naija product we go say no be quality, when them cum give am quality him go say e no fine reach oyinbo own, if they give am beauty him go say e too fine na fake, na only oyinbo go fit give u the right product u need. To me it is sheer unpatriotism not to patronize proforce cos i see no problem with the HCMPAV and the ARA MRAP, they are pretty and also proforce gives standard world class protection; so we might wanna ask MOD whats the problem. Are u not in correlation with the President’s dream of a homemade defence industrial sector?? Some MOD officials should also be arrested and brought for questioning cos i wonder who are the fuckers who have been giving NAF stupid shitpipe airlines doctrine, NA Peace-keeping, NN coastguard doctrines?? Who are the officials who have been telling past presidents that Francophone countries and France aint a problem to our political and military interests?? No threat assessments on our neighbors, no background checks, i wonder if LIBYA & MALI are even under their scope.
Wonder why perm secs are being sacked in other sectors and DIA, NIA officials got away (i stand to be corrected). Our defence & intelligence agencies seems to be in hibernation, no spies in BH, no spies checking on our neighbors what they are up to, no spies working on how to take out(assassination) Top ten BH commanders within and outside our borders. SSS where u they?? Na wa ooh..i might be wrong though since i am not privileged to such info.
Oga Abduleez, I don’t advocate buying 9ja for buying 9ja sake. If one does that, mediocrity comes in. Our lads must have the best that we can afford. Not for parade but for use. It must be something that will be available when needed.
Thus, its not just economical but strategic.
If the quality is in question, then the army must come on board to find a solution, they must take ownership.
If they find the available products unsuitable, they must point out where and what (and if possible, how) needs be done or changed.
We must come to the realization that a time will come where we may not have all the funds to get what we need and even when we do have, it may not be sold to us.
Alas, I miss speak, the time is here already. Look inwards 9ja
If I may join your MRAPs discussion people, I absolutely agree that Nigeria needs to make something at home, that is how to standardize and also cut cost. Several months ago, I posted opinions on Nigeria building two modular platforms for all vehicles.
A wheeled 4×4 for Special Ops and versatile MRAPs. A 6×6 variant as troop transport, IFV, AFV, combat Ambulance…. Nigeria is spoilt for choice on the Chasis, engine and drive system platform for this, Mercedes UNIMOG, Man Diesel, Volvo, Ukranian or Russian military trucks.
A second modular vehicle would be tracked IFVs, AFVs, Demining vehicles and light tanks. This second, tracked platform can be made much more ambitious to serve also as a platform for MBT.
Heavy guns, RWS, ATGM e.t.c can all be bought in modules to be fitted in or locally co developed with foreign technical assistance and local steel forging companies.
Regarding the Proforce HCMPAV, It is mainly for antiriot police work. THe plough in front is for clearing road obstacles mounted by protesters and the vehicle should come equipped with waer cannon or ultrasonic crowd disperser. It can however be adapted for military use with some modifications. I see two technical designs to be incorporated to make it become military grade;
1. such a long wheel base should be a 6×6 and at least 6 inches more elevated for practical reasons, what happens if a wheel gets blown off by an IED or land mines? You want something that can survive this kind of blast to be your troop carrier (32 troops!)
2 I would double the length of the plough in front and preferably make it a fork rather than a plough. A long fork would exert less weight on the vehicle and the ground as well as digs up/disrupts mine when pushed along, this reduces the blast effect (kinetic energy transfered) on the vehicle.
I really do not know where to put this but it is very important
Edward@ DonKlericuzo is reporting ( Confirming)
“Can confirm a small team of British SAS troops are with Nigerian Army commanders to advise them on Battle Space Management”
Sounds good. But I have been trying to run a check at home since yesterday but I cannot confirm this yet. Of course, I’m no longer in the system and if this is classified, I may have difficulties finding out. My best bet would be instructors. When SAS regulars deploy, it’s usually on active duty missions and direct engagement basis, Nigeria does not yet qualify for a place for SAS to deploy…well, I may be wrong!
Dear Ogas, Can you imagine effect that a deployment of Nigerian Soldiers to UN or AU operations driving in a convoy of made in Nigeria APCs/IFV Vehicles ( Proforce, Igirigi). would have on other present and even well kitted African soldiers, they would feel out classed or have an immediate inferiority complex, even the Western troops present at the occasion, would look with a new type of respect on the Nigerian military. This is how we start to inch our way into global dominance and reckoning, The African countries that are still colonial stooges would realize they are heading the wrong way in regards of self reliance.
I assure you if we give the Nigerian industrialist a chance , just as was done with the mobile phones, which certain individuals equated to rocket science a few years ago, we would be producing any thing under the sun in the shortest time period. Not patronizing Proforce with sizeable contracts is an example of a bad case, they do not need to align with anybody or NA, because they are a business oriented out fit, they manufacture with intention to sell and make a profit, which would be a driving force for them to improve and invent.
What business do we have collecting second hand donations that are more expensive than newly manufactured local IVFs. I do not see any serious will to be self reliant, The MRAPs would not be any game changer, in fact they stand the risk of breaking done during action.
Serious Countries act with national pride, I remember India after the major Tsunami in Asia, politely telling the US to keep it’s donation that they are well and capable of looking after their affairs.
This vehicles are not as compact and nimble in their design/ dimensions and maybe applicable to NE type of theatre/ terrain only. They must be cumbersome to use for off road Ops in a southern bush war environment. Hence the local manufacturers can work on the design concepts with the Nigerian Military to tailor vehicles to meet our needs.
Proforce can build to order any thing required by the NA for land warfare, but if you remember the garth and posture of the NA officers that visited the factory some months on video, they comported themselves as conquering army not like people that want to do business.
With the age of Unmanned Tanks and armed scout IFVs, the building and development of land vehicles is by far less risky or expensive than building aircraft or high performance boats.
Except I am mistaken the budget did not specifically mention the purchase of any local manufactured IFVs /APCs. Even if the ones shown in pictures on the blog heading for Libya are not made in Nigeria, the selection the type shows that the design was got right.
For diplomatic reasons it might have been difficult to refuse this unwanted gift, however this is not the case for the numerous and different type of “not cost effective ” importation of IVF/APC that could have been manufactured locally. I feel so bad that this was a medium where people were once discussing Nigeria as the strongest military in Africa. The government really has to decide what it whats , then business people and investors would not be afraid of having to watch contract being given to foreign plants at their expense. what Oga Ifiok mentioned earlier above is already happening, “the time has really come that we cannot afford all our needs” , hence we have redefined a NAF squadron as a flight wing of 3 x aircraft.
If our local IFVs / APCs have design flaws, then point it out and let the engineers go back to the drawing board.
PhilOffizersStone FROM SOUTH AFRICA
Adding a limited number of such vehicles will do nothing but add more burden to NA supply linesVand systems as well as place an unnecessary demand on NA mechanics who will have to go
through a lengthy process of qualifying to work on the vehicles… and yet will only have 26 to work on.
If this is but the first delivery of many more of these units… then all is good and well. But if not… maybe it is best to re-tool them for
other purposes, such as mobile command stations or ambulances or something else along those lines… at least that way you will mitigate the added operational costs by maximizing the utility of the vehicles.
On a side note, American MRAP’s as well as the Chinese Bigfoot are known to have poor off-road capabilities as they are designed for patrolling MSR’s and moving troops from A to B along MSR’s… they were never designed for high mobility bush warfare.
This in my mind it would be better to focus on acquiring more Reva’s or other such platforms from the Namibians and South Africans as they design theirs with a clear emphasis on off-road
mobility .
Sir Beegs, I agree with most of the reasoning of this South African. I have complained several months ago (I guess August 2015) when you first informed us here that NA was getting some MRAPs from the US. Keeping the diverse variants of vehicles operational and serviceable is a big headache to the mechanics and a financial burden to the NA. I think it’s high time Nigerian armed forces went the way of equipment standardization across all the services. Operate as few variants of any equipment as possible but operate each equipment in decent numbers to meet all your needs. Free gifts are good, but they often come with their own cons.
On the offroad capability, I don’t know about the Chinese MRAPs but I think the SA guy is not entirely correct. Yes, South Africa gave the world the gift of modern day MRAPs and conitues to design capable MRAPS today, but people have gone on to improve on the South African designs to make theirs. Some of these US MRAPs are more survivable than SA variants like Casspir (NATO tested some Casspir and NATO has some). The troop comfort and equipment installed on a regular US MRAPs are most likely superior too. All US MRAPs are very off road capable and mobile, the problems come when additional armour are mounted on the body which significantly increases their weight and reduce their versatility in very demanding terrains, but this would happen to any vehicle.
It would be interesting to see how the Reva performs against vehicles like the Cougar.